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Input on best food for new puppy

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Isis
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Input on best food for new puppy

Post by Isis » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:37 am

Hi,
I have a new DS puppy and was wondering what you all thought about feeding the youngsters? He came to me on Royal Canin Maxi Puppy, which I think is fine. However, his stool is a varies from formed, yet soft, to quite a bit mushy. (Sorry for the description!!) What do you all feed your Dutch Shepherds?

Thank you in advance! Isis
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by ZodiacT » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:02 am

I know a lot of people on here feed raw, but if you want to stick with dry kibble I recommend Blue Buffalo brand food. It is one of the healthiest dry food brands out there for pets, it doesn't contain corn or a lot of the other fillers you see in other brands and the main ingredient is real meat, not meat-by-product or meat meal. After serving in the veterinary corps and learning about canine nutrition it became my favorite dry food and Zodiac absolutely loves it.
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by icvanstra » Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:10 am

Food discussions can get lengthy. :dschick:

I'm not going to recommend any given brand. Your first decision is kibble or raw or barf or some combo.. I feed kibble and found the following to be the best for my dogs:
- no grains
- the first ingredients listed should be Meat. Not meat-parts, meat-by-product, meat-something-else.
- high quality food doesn't have to be the most expensive
- I feed less high quality food as compared to low quality (aka filler)
- feeding the dogs less means they poop less and they absorb a greater percentage (in my opinion) of that food

Thankfully Abigail is not a picky eater so as soon as I found one that Cino liked, tolerated, and reduced his itching (the reason for no grain) we had our new food.

Also, I do give the dogs human food but always mixed with their kibble. Not every meal. I mix in a little yoghurt from time to time, sometimes a raw egg, if I make anything in the crockpot the dogs always get some of the juices poured over the kibble.
Eric
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by Isis » Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:42 pm

ZodiacT wrote:I know a lot of people on here feed raw, but if you want to stick with dry kibble I recommend Blue Buffalo brand food. It is one of the healthiest dry food brands out there for pets, it doesn't contain corn or a lot of the other fillers you see in other brands and the main ingredient is real meat, not meat-by-product or meat meal. After serving in the veterinary corps and learning about canine nutrition it became my favorite dry food and Zodiac absolutely loves it.
Thanks for recommendation! I've seen Blue Buffalo at the stores, they have a lot of different formulations, I noticed. Do you think the "large breed" formulations are just a gimmick? I expect my my pup to mature at at least 70 lbs. His sire is 70 lbs. and his dam is large and very heavily built for a female.
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Isis
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by Isis » Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:50 pm

icvanstra wrote:Food discussions can get lengthy. :dschick:

I'm not going to recommend any given brand. Your first decision is kibble or raw or barf or some combo.. I feed kibble and found the following to be the best for my dogs:
- no grains
- the first ingredients listed should be Meat. Not meat-parts, meat-by-product, meat-something-else.
- high quality food doesn't have to be the most expensive
- I feed less high quality food as compared to low quality (aka filler)
- feeding the dogs less means they poop less and they absorb a greater percentage (in my opinion) of that food

Thankfully Abigail is not a picky eater so as soon as I found one that Cino liked, tolerated, and reduced his itching (the reason for no grain) we had our new food.

Also, I do give the dogs human food but always mixed with their kibble. Not every meal. I mix in a little yoghurt from time to time, sometimes a raw egg, if I make anything in the crockpot the dogs always get some of the juices poured over the kibble.
Hi and thanks for the information! I also like the results of RAW, but I've been giving the pup a tiny bit of raw ground turkey (pretty bland and lean) with his kibble and his stool has gotten waaaay too much like pudding. I wonder if he's too young for raw meat, doesn't have the proper enzymes to digest it properly, yet?
I just don't think Royal Canin is the best, it certainly seems to be grain heavy and it has wheat gluten, which I think is even worse than corn gluten.
I agree that adding real food to the dry diet is healthy for them, so long as they can handle it...I'm hoping Panzer's digestion will be better as he matures and I can feed him like the big dogs.
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by ZodiacT » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:18 am

Isis wrote:Thanks for recommendation! I've seen Blue Buffalo at the stores, they have a lot of different formulations, I noticed. Do you think the "large breed" formulations are just a gimmick? I expect my my pup to mature at at least 70 lbs. His sire is 70 lbs. and his dam is large and very heavily built for a female.
The main difference I have seen in the large breed food vs. regular food is that the large breed food contains natural sources of glucosamine to support joint health and has specific nutrients to help maintain the muscles and bones of large breed dogs. I buy the large breed formula myself.
Hayley St.Pierre-Thomas and Zodiac RL1-AOE, RL2-AOE, CGC
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by Christie M » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:06 pm

ZodiacT wrote: The main difference I have seen in the large breed food vs. regular food is that the large breed food contains natural sources of glucosamine to support joint health and has specific nutrients to help maintain the muscles and bones of large breed dogs. I buy the large breed formula myself.
The veterinary nutritionists that I have spoken to say that it is pretty much about marketing. The levels of supplements are sub-clinical to have any effect.
Christie Meyer
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http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
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Be proud of the things that you have taught your dog. Be humbled and grateful for all of the things that your dog has taught you. - Unknown

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ZodiacT
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Tell us about yourself: I was introduced to the Dutch Shepherd breed during my time as an Army veterinary technician working with Military Working Dogs. I fell in love with the breed and by pure chance happened to meet a DS in a local rescue who was a police K9 washout and was up for adoption. We adopted Zodiac right away and she has been an important part of our family ever since. We currently compete in Rally-Obedience and participate in Agility.
Location: Andrews Air Force Base, MD

Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by ZodiacT » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:19 pm

Christie M wrote:
ZodiacT wrote: The veterinary nutritionists that I have spoken to say that it is pretty much about marketing. The levels of supplements are sub-clinical to have any effect.
When I was in the veterinary corps our veterinary nutritionists switched all the working dogs to a new type of food that had the added glucosamine because their studies showed it actually did have an effect. Might depend on the brand, I know some brands will say anything if it makes them money.
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:22 pm

I have to agree with Christie, Ive done some research on Glucoseamine for humans, and the levels you need to have any effect are so great there is no effect with what we take.
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by Christie M » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:45 pm

ZodiacT wrote:
Christie M wrote: The veterinary nutritionists that I have spoken to say that it is pretty much about marketing. The levels of supplements are sub-clinical to have any effect.
When I was in the veterinary corps our veterinary nutritionists switched all the working dogs to a new type of food that had the added glucosamine because their studies showed it actually did have an effect. Might depend on the brand, I know some brands will say anything if it makes them money.
I know that a lot of the dogs overseas (but these are private contract dogs) were being fed a lot of Science Diet - both the derm diet and the joint diet. The joint diet actually switches the ratio of Omega 3 / Omega 6 which has a profound effect on joint health. That food is awesome, but I didn't think it was due to the joint supplements per say (ie, Glucosamine, Chondrotin..etc), but more to do with the antioxidant ratios. I would love to know what your vet corps were using.
Christie Meyer
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http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
http://www.thunderhawkcanine.com

Be proud of the things that you have taught your dog. Be humbled and grateful for all of the things that your dog has taught you. - Unknown

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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by wahinelf » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:03 am

Christie M wrote:
I know that a lot of the dogs overseas (but these are private contract dogs) were being fed a lot of Science Diet - both the derm diet and the joint diet. The joint diet actually switches the ratio of Omega 3 / Omega 6 which has a profound effect on joint health. That food is awesome, but I didn't think it was due to the joint supplements per say (ie, Glucosamine, Chondrotin..etc), but more to do with the antioxidant ratios. I would love to know what your vet corps were using.
I love that Science Diet has really specific formulations for varying health issues, but I wish their ingredients weren't so crappy. I'd be interested if they can do formulations without having corn as a first ingredient, because the science behind their food really is impressive.
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by Isis » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:52 pm

Christie M wrote:
ZodiacT wrote:
Christie M wrote: The veterinary nutritionists that I have spoken to say that it is pretty much about marketing. The levels of supplements are sub-clinical to have any effect.
When I was in the veterinary corps our veterinary nutritionists switched all the working dogs to a new type of food that had the added glucosamine because their studies showed it actually did have an effect. Might depend on the brand, I know some brands will say anything if it makes them money.
I know that a lot of the dogs overseas (but these are private contract dogs) were being fed a lot of Science Diet - both the derm diet and the joint diet. The joint diet actually switches the ratio of Omega 3 / Omega 6 which has a profound effect on joint health. That food is awesome, but I didn't think it was due to the joint supplements per say (ie, Glucosamine, Chondrotin..etc), but more to do with the antioxidant ratios. I would love to know what your vet corps were using.

About those diets....do you know if they were Rx or regular store bought Science Diet? I was wondering which Joint and Derm formulations you are talking about? I've seen some impressive coats on show dogs being fed SD....seems impossible when you read the ingredient panel!
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by alspyce » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:17 pm

I sometimes wonder if those show dogs really eat SD, or if their owners are paid to endorse it. (as I've heard the Vets are.)
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by BishonVonAachen » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:05 am

Hi and thanks for the information! I also like the results of RAW, but I've been giving the pup a tiny bit of raw ground turkey (pretty bland and lean) with his kibble and his stool has gotten waaaay too much like pudding. I wonder if he's too young for raw meat, doesn't have the proper enzymes to digest it properly, yet?
:dschick:

I just wanted to point out that mixing raw along with the kibble is probably what caused the pudding poops. I would not ever mix the two together as they digest at different rates and can cause problems when you mix the two. If you are going to feed both I would wait at least 12hours between the two. If you need any more info please feel free to ask.

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Location: Andrews Air Force Base, MD

Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by ZodiacT » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:40 am

Christie M wrote:
ZodiacT wrote:
Christie M wrote: The veterinary nutritionists that I have spoken to say that it is pretty much about marketing. The levels of supplements are sub-clinical to have any effect.
When I was in the veterinary corps our veterinary nutritionists switched all the working dogs to a new type of food that had the added glucosamine because their studies showed it actually did have an effect. Might depend on the brand, I know some brands will say anything if it makes them money.
I know that a lot of the dogs overseas (but these are private contract dogs) were being fed a lot of Science Diet - both the derm diet and the joint diet. The joint diet actually switches the ratio of Omega 3 / Omega 6 which has a profound effect on joint health. That food is awesome, but I didn't think it was due to the joint supplements per say (ie, Glucosamine, Chondrotin..etc), but more to do with the antioxidant ratios. I would love to know what your vet corps were using.
The dogs we had were on Science Diet for Large Breed dogs, which has a Glucosamine supplement in it. I don't recommend SD because it has some pretty useless ingredients, but from what I read they did see a difference between dogs on regular SD and dogs on the Large Breed SD as far as joint deterioration over time. I can't link the results on here because it was paperwork handed down to our vet clinic from the Veterinary Command, but basically the results showed that the Glucosamine in the food had some positive effect. Like I said I don't recommend Science Diet (or anything else with crap like corn in it) but Blue Buffalo Large Breed has high-quality ingredients AND Glucosamine for joints so I think it's great. Of course I'm not a nutritionist or an expert, this is just my opinion based on the data I have seen.
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by Christie M » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:18 pm

alspyce wrote:I sometimes wonder if those show dogs really eat SD, or if their owners are paid to endorse it. (as I've heard the Vets are.)
I haven't heard of vets being paid to endorse food (well, unless they are in actual ads). Its just that SD provides "Professional Packs" at a lower cost to veterinary personnel, as does Purina, Eukanuba and others. They also sell their maintenance food at a very discounted rate to veterinary students. Lastly, most of the veterinary text book on nutrition are created by Hills and Purina - who also fund most of the symposiums and conferences on nutrition.

I have seen many show dogs (and pet dogs) fed SD who look and act wonderfully. They are very healthy. I think it all comes down to feeding what works best for you and your dog. Everyone is scared of corn as an ingredient, but its a great filler. And I don't see anything wrong with some fillers - because honestly I would rather eat 2 cups of food per day rather than one. Sometimes the feeling of "fullness" is reason enough.
Christie Meyer
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http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by Drizlaru » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:27 am

I have 0 experience with DS, but I've always been fond of Orijen dry dog food for my Dane girl. JMO!
Disclaimer: This post is not intended to send anyone to grief counseling, or a mental trauma hospital. The information in this post is intended for "informational purposes only", and is a product of my own opinion.
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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by CaroleBoaz » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:04 pm

I had a vet recommend Science Diet J/D for my Malinois. I looked at the ingredients and percents, and I found a food with the exact same stuff, but without the grain. The only thing I needed to add was the Omega 3/6 supplement. Unfortunately, I don't remember the brand of food. It cost considerably less.

I feed any of the grain free foods, and feed puppies the same as I feed the adults. Sometimes they get the canned versions,depending on my cash flow. I also buy ground whole animal from a commercial raw food company local to Indianapolis, but deliver from IN, to MI, to KY, to IL and IA. Plus, I buy chicken parts to supplement. (I really use them for mid-day snacks on the weekends.) My dogs are used to a variety of foods. :)

Probably if you feed your puppy a whole chicken breast with ribs and back, alone, for on meal. She'd be fine.

(I don't feed raw and kibble in the same meal, except, I might add some ground turkey to kibble. My female might have loose stool when I do this, but she has always had a sensitive stomach)

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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by CaroleBoaz » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:19 pm

I just remembered the brand of food that was like J/D, it was one of the Instinct grain-free foods. This was several years ago. I don't know if anything has changed. I stopped feeding Instinct because it was getting too hard to find.

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Re: Input on best food for new puppy

Post by Christie M » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:57 pm

CaroleBoaz wrote:I had a vet recommend Science Diet J/D for my Malinois. I looked at the ingredients and percents, and I found a food with the exact same stuff, but without the grain. The only thing I needed to add was the Omega 3/6 supplement. Unfortunately, I don't remember the brand of food. It cost considerably less.
I think it really is just the Omega ratios that set J/D apart from any other food. I can't remember the numbers anymore, but we considered supplementing Matt's big dog to achieve the same thing - flipping the ratio to have considerably more 3s than 6s. They called it nutrogenetics? I think. It refers to using different diets or supplemnets to change the body's natural occurances and reactions. With J/D, by flipping the Omegas, it caused the body to halt the natural degradation process of joint material. I remember thinking the whole thing was really cool. But when we looked at supplementing to do the same thing, Matt's dog was going to need like 30 Salmon Oil capsules per day. LOL. That didn't seem like the best option :-)
Christie Meyer
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http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
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Be proud of the things that you have taught your dog. Be humbled and grateful for all of the things that your dog has taught you. - Unknown

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