Training with a Dogtra IQ

[Dutchringgirl]

Sounds very cool and I can really see the Collar helping alot.

[Raven]

By using directional control and an e collar as a way to communicate you can move a k9 around to where he can get his head "into the wind" quarter the sent cone and proceed to the source.

Aw, geez...here I am again with the brain of a drooling toddler.

How does redirecting a dog in-training into a scent cone teach him how to track scent when you're telling him where to go, where the scent is, regardless how he's being redirected? I don't get how that's honing/sharpening his inherent abilities.

In the real world, we don't need dogs to detect things we already know about. We need them to find what we don't know. I don't seem able to connect the training to the desired result.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Here's a really good link on scent theory and I highly recommend anyone interested check it out: http://www.vsrda.org/how-scent-and-airflow-works (anyone who doesn't want to click through can google VSRDA and scent and it should be the first link)

There is a really good video of a dog working off leash on a scent cone (under Coning plumes - another click through to youtube). It's response is to identify the source and then run to handler and lead handler back to source it seems. Here's another video of an air scent wilderness SAR training with great commentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxvXrlwptJM (Google K9 Search & Rescue Training - Wilderness Air Scent Elizabeth Kalik).

I know a little (teeny tiny) from SAR work that k9 handlers are given and area and supposed direction subject traveled for a live find. Wind direction is taken into consideration. Dog is then placed downwind and told to find. I think this would be placing into a scent cone, right Roger? One SAR handler told me once they will generally deploy in wilderness off leash and in certain disaster zones; however the handler must maneuver the dog down wind and hopefully into the scent cone preferably on leash. Don't know if this applies to every situation.

The baseball training tactic I've seen in use and it's pretty cool. I'm told it is specific to certain cases but not sure when/where you would deploy a method besides rubble/disaster searches. Are there any other instances where this type of specific directional control would be used Roger?

I think there's also an important discretion to be made: there's air scent dogs, trailing dogs, and tracking dogs (although trailing dogs are sometimes generalized as trailing/tracking). Most off leash work from what I've seen are air scent dogs who must work the air to figure out the where the source is coming from. Trailing dogs can scent discriminate versus an air scent dog who finds everyone, though I'm sure could possibly be trained to discriminate also. Trailing dogs will use a combo of tracking and air scent. Tracking dogs follow the physical path of the person/object without air scenting. These are commonly what police k9s are trained as, as it does not require a scent article per say but rather a patch of scent from which to follow. (more info on all these types here http://www.ussartf.org/dogs_search_rescue.htm) Most trailing/tracking dogs are on leash, especially in urban areas for safety/handling reasons, from what I've seen.

If anyone is interested, this is a very short clip of a hard surface tracking dog at a very young age: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjigMpKDWPs (Google Sam speuren 15 wkn dorp by Dick Staal). Dick Staal's hard surface tracking method is really awesome and works. Personally I'm very interested in this method.

[Raven]

Will invest the time to read the sources you cited. Many thanks. Till then, I'll still drool; I'll just try not to speak while drooling.

Staal...I know of him.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Sharon - I'm a habitual drool-while-talking victim. I like to think my brain crashes like a computer and it's the restart program warming it back up. Best medicine is some DS derp-ness.

[MultiPurposeK9]

Raven, it is not to lead him to the odor, it's to get him in a position, down wind, around an obstacles, up an embankment, across a cat walk, turn back into the wind for him to pick up the odor or search a particular place. In training some of my dogs I put them up on a wall maybe 36inches tall by 12 inches wide and 25 feet long. I start them in a sit in the middle and begin to teach them to move left and right off a hand cue. Then they learn to move stop sit and look back to me. Then we move them in the opposite direction. Then we progress to moving them in direction and dropping them. The possibilities are endless. Stand on the wall and send the dog away from you. Do that and stop him half way and turn him back to you and recall. It is simple "Directional Control". Picture a hunter who shoots a duck and the dog doesn't mark it for whatever reason so he has no visual mark to work from. Now I want that duck, I know where it fell and I have to send my dog in that direction and move him back and forth, left and right for him to pick up that odor and retrieve that duck.

[MultiPurposeK9]

If you google "stand-off detection dogs" I think you will get a real good idea of what directional control is, how it is used and how its taught along with a demo video . Hope this helps.

[Raven]

Thanks, Roger. I'll check it out.

I get the downed duck scenario.

I think I'm blocked, generally, due to aversion, in large part b/c what I consider over-use (and mis-use) of shock, especially as a replacement/substitute for solid training. And I mean no offense when saying that. It's based on what I've seen and read.

Some of these threads lately have produced a lot of reading material...for which I am indebted to those who cited said material.

[MultiPurposeK9]

Remember E Collars have nice little extras like tone and vibration in addition to E Stim. There is never a substitute for a solid foundation learned with collar and leash with +R and -P. It's when you begin to do more, add distance and distraction that the toolbox expands to meet the demands of what you are trying to achieve.

[Dutchringgirl]

Sharon, when you think of the shock collar in this situation, are you thinking of a big shock given to the dog?

The ecollar is a great tool when the handler is trained properly ( dog too of course) Like Roger said, there is tone and vibration that just can give the dog a " hey" if you need their attention and they are " over there"

[Raven]

Sharon, when you think of the shock collar in this situation, are you thinking of a big shock given to the dog?

Yeah...shock on any level. I fail to think of other modes (tone, vibrate). M'bad. It's in the vault now, though.

[Dutchringgirl]

the Ecollar is an excellent tool when used properly