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A good training tip

General issues of training/education
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Owned-By-Hendrix
Training Dog
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:40 am
Tell us about yourself: Dutch Shepherd Owner.

A good training tip

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:10 am

I was catching up on my past issues of a K9 magazine and found this little excerpt. It is so brilliant and simple, and exactly what a lot of us come up against in training, especially for "harder" dogs (quotes used to try to imply a range of hardness whether in attitude, amount of correction, or drive, not sarcasm). I think this is something that becomes very important especially in the teenage time.

Excerpt taken from Police K9 Magazine, Nov-Dec 2015.
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Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

Owned-By-Hendrix
Training Dog
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:40 am
Tell us about yourself: Dutch Shepherd Owner.

Re: A good training tip

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:27 am

Here's another good one, same article.
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Screen Shot 2016-03-27 at 9.27.17 PM.png
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4867
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: A good training tip

Post by Dutchringgirl » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:05 pm

Excellent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So true too. The second article is Sadie.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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SandiHunt
Just Whelped
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:16 pm
Tell us about yourself: My name is Sandi, I have just added a nearly 4 month old Dutch Shepherd to my family. Her name is Mina, but it should be Mean Uuh! Actually, she is as sweet as she is spicy and has great drive already. I'm looking forward to learning as much as possible about the breed and having a competent working family member.

Re: A good training tip

Post by SandiHunt » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:32 pm

Great Articles - I need to be a bit more diligent!
Sandi, Ali (Presa), Pierre (Bichonpoo) & Mina (DS) - MO

Tyler Durden
Puppy
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:00 am
Tell us about yourself: I have always had german shepherds but I am new to dutch shepherds. I hope to get a new pup shortly and look forward to learning and sharing my experience.

Re: A good training tip

Post by Tyler Durden » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:03 am

Owned-By-Hendrix wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:10 am
I was catching up on my past issues of a K9 magazine and found this little excerpt. It is so brilliant and simple, and exactly what a lot of us come up against in training, especially for "harder" dogs (quotes used to try to imply a range of hardness whether in attitude, amount of correction, or drive, not sarcasm). I think this is something that becomes very important especially in the teenage time.

Excerpt taken from Police K9 Magazine, Nov-Dec 2015.
So the only way the dog is allowed to satisfy drives is if "you" the handler tell him to? Am I understanding that right? The dog eats when you say eat, the dog bites when you say bite, the dog tracks when you say find.

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4867
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: A good training tip

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:51 pm

Tyler Durden wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:03 am


So the only way the dog is allowed to satisfy drives is if "you" the handler tell him to? Am I understanding that right? The dog eats when you say eat, the dog bites when you say bite, the dog tracks when you say find.
Yes. You are in control. He eats when you say eat. He does not move unless you tell him to. he does nothing until you tell him so. If you put him in a down/ stay, he is not to move until you say, and if that is allday, then he sits all day.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4867
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: A good training tip

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:53 pm

If I dont give Sadie any commands, she will do what she wishes when she feels the need. If she wants to play, she will find anything to play with, Dog bed, Thalie, my shoes etc. This is when they get destructive.

Destructive is a human term. The dog does not know what belongs to them, what is a toy or not a toy. So they will just find anything to destroy. Unless you are there to stop them
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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TimL_168
Training Dog
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: A good training tip

Post by TimL_168 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:25 pm

Dutchringgirl wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:53 pm
If I dont give Sadie any commands, she will do what she wishes when she feels the need. If she wants to play, she will find anything to play with, Dog bed, Thalie, my shoes etc. This is when they get destructive.

Destructive is a human term. The dog does not know what belongs to them, what is a toy or not a toy. So they will just find anything to destroy. Unless you are there to stop them
Basically, think "guidance" as opposed to "oppression", right?
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4867
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: A good training tip

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:00 pm

yes, guidance would steer them to using their aggression in a positive way. Oppression would be not allowing them to do anything while they were full of spit and vinegar and just getting after them. This would be where training comes in, having toys, spending time with them and showing them what you want them to do with their energy.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Tyler Durden
Puppy
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:00 am
Tell us about yourself: I have always had german shepherds but I am new to dutch shepherds. I hope to get a new pup shortly and look forward to learning and sharing my experience.

Re: A good training tip

Post by Tyler Durden » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:13 am

Dutchringgirl wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:51 pm
Tyler Durden wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:03 am


So the only way the dog is allowed to satisfy drives is if "you" the handler tell him to? Am I understanding that right? The dog eats when you say eat, the dog bites when you say bite, the dog tracks when you say find.
Yes. You are in control. He eats when you say eat. He does not move unless you tell him to. he does nothing until you tell him so. If you put him in a down/ stay, he is not to move until you say, and if that is allday, then he sits all day.
But an 8 week old pup is understandably mischievous, he bites a lot.

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4867
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: A good training tip

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:04 pm

oh yes, at 8 weeks they are a big handfull !!!! Redirect his bite. You will get bit and loose some blood, but thats the nature of the beast, they are fast. I still have to be very careful with Sadie when we play, she gets so worked up she looses focus and snaps a toy out of my hand.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Owned-By-Hendrix
Training Dog
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:40 am
Tell us about yourself: Dutch Shepherd Owner.

Re: A good training tip

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Thu May 18, 2017 5:19 am

It's more about the pattern you're setting in higher level situations. Take bite work. The decoy is the dog's BEST toy ever. You have a lot of drives that end up in "bite the decoy to relieve the stress" so the dog is going to do everything in it's power to satisfy those drives. Dogs do not like being in conflict long.

So I know the dog wants the decoy. Am I going to deman a high level of engagement from the dog immediately on the field with the decoy taunting? Not right off the bat. I start small - look at me for half a second then go bite the decoy. I build that duration up. I start asking for different things. The dog is learning that by listening to me it's getting to satisfy its drives so it's more willing to listen and obey because it knows it will get something satisfying. We build on this concept and pattern and change it up.

Same thing with a small pup. Pup wants the food/toy. I'm teaching it by doing whatever small thing I ask, you get to satisfy your drives. When the dog realizes it can bypass me and fulfill its drives, the want to listen to me is gone and then I must use compulsion to force the behavior, which builds conflict because instead of wanting to do what I say to fulfill its need, the pup is now fighting me to fulfill its need on its own. The longer this goes on the more conflict I create in correcting it and if the dog doesn't have a lot of biddability in it, it's going to come up the leash at you.

You see this forming in pups who suddenly become too busy sniffing to focus on a recall or a pup who lunges at strangers and you can't get them to calm down. They're fulfilling their drives and not listening to you - guess which choice they're going to make given this if it's never corrected?
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

TimL_168
Training Dog
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: A good training tip

Post by TimL_168 » Thu May 18, 2017 9:51 am

Owned-By-Hendrix wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 5:19 am


So I know the dog wants the decoy. Am I going to deman a high level of engagement from the dog immediately on the field with the decoy taunting? Not right off the bat. I start small - look at me for half a second then go bite the decoy. I build that duration up. I start asking for different things. The dog is learning that by listening to me it's getting to satisfy its drives so it's more willing to listen and obey because it knows it will get something satisfying. We build on this concept and pattern and change it up.



You see this forming in pups who suddenly become too busy sniffing to focus on a recall or a pup who lunges at strangers and you can't get them to calm down. They're fulfilling their drives and not listening to you - guess which choice they're going to make given this if it's never corrected?
Love this. I know I've patted myself on the back here before in how I've managed En's prey drive, but this is exactly it! I haven't worked her on the deer hide/flirt pole in a few months, and it shows.
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4867
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: A good training tip

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu May 18, 2017 12:54 pm

Decoy is the best toy. YOU GOT THAT RIGHT !!!!!
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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