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Name Recognition/recall?

General issues of training/education
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brindledog
Puppy
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:04 am
Tell us about yourself: I love Shepherds- German, Dutch and Belgian. I recently lost my 16.5 y/o GSD mix and was hoping to find a GSD or DS mix. I totally lucked out in finding Grendel, a DS/GSD mix at 9.5 weeks old. She was filthy and flea-ridden, but still the cutest, craziest thing ever. She's going to live up to her name! First dog I've had that I've actually seen the parents and definitely know what she is!

Name Recognition/recall?

Post by brindledog » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:08 am

I've had Grendel about 3 months now. I recently took her to a sports dog club I was invited to attend by a dog trainer I had met. He noted that Grendel had poor name recognition. I have since hired that trainer for private lessons, and we're working on the name thing, but he and another trainer both said I should try to reserve using her name for when I want her to come to me. So I've tried that, and I'm working with her throughout the day on a daily basis. However, she doesn't seem to hear me, or at least pay attention, a good deal of the time at home or on walks. On walks I can at least get her attention by jumping around and acting crazy, but at home if I call from another room, I may as well be talking to myself.

I asked trainer if it was possible that she is so used to hearing me talk (I live alone with my animals and talk to myself and them all the time) that she doesn't even hear me, and he thinks that a distinct possibility.

I read another thread on here about people that rarely talk at home. Well that's not me! And i don't see myself changing after this many years. If I'm not talking to myself or my animals, I'm probably singing really loud or otherwise making some kind of noise. So is there a solution to this? Grendel responds better to me saying "look" right now then she does to her name. Do i need to rename her "Look"?!

Lisa G.

ICE
Green Dog
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:32 am
Tell us about yourself: I have a 12 week old dutch shepherd that my trainer got for me to train in schutzhund. This is my 1st dutch shepherd, I have always had german shepherds. Currently, I have 4 dogs.

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by ICE » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:53 pm

I talk at home to my dogs all the time. Try only using her name when you know she will look at you or respond - then reward heavily with whatever she loves best.
Patty and Ice

MultiPurposeK9
Green Dog
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:40 am
Tell us about yourself: Multipurpose trainer

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by MultiPurposeK9 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:06 pm

One of my pet peeves when I train new owners/handlers is they talk to much! Just cue the dog to the behavior you want. There is no need to add verbs and adjectives, it all becomes clutter and noise to the dog. We actually reward behavior before we add a cue. People who have running conversations with dogs trying to teach obedience never get far. As for name, the only time I encourage it is from a distance or if I am not in view. Lykos Here! At the end of a 6 foot leash they pretty much know who you are talking to even in the presence of other dogs and no freestyling, obedience is taught on a collar and leash until they get proofed.
Roger
Consistency + Repetition = Predictability

ICE
Green Dog
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:32 am
Tell us about yourself: I have a 12 week old dutch shepherd that my trainer got for me to train in schutzhund. This is my 1st dutch shepherd, I have always had german shepherds. Currently, I have 4 dogs.

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by ICE » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:05 pm

I didn't mean talking while training - I am pretty sure Lisa was saying she talks to her dogs in general around the house.
Patty and Ice

Dutchringgirl
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Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
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Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:16 pm

yes, but chatting around the house dilutes all of the talk. I talk alot too and I see how they respond to all of my chatter. These typses of dogs are so intune to you and hang on your every word so they are always listenig to you and dont know a real cue from your chatter.

When you are talking, dont look at them or pay attention to them, then when you want them to do something, make sure you are clear and concise and firm
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Owned-By-Hendrix
Training Dog
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Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:40 am
Tell us about yourself: Dutch Shepherd Owner.

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:23 pm

How old is Grendel again? 6 months?

Two things could be going on. She never fully learned her name. To teach that you load a clicker, then say name and click when they look at you. Basically their name becomes another command for "look" but you want that to be strong association with what I like to deem checking in. I don't care if they hold their attention on me or not. I want them to be able to disengage and focus on me for a moment. The other thing is she's in her rebellious stage, depending on her age, and you need to really make your commands enforceable and strong. Keep your tone of voice strong and firm.

I chatter to H all the time. However, he knows his commands are in a certain voice. If I ask him to sit he ignores me. If I tell him to sit he listens. Keep that tone consistent; it helps them realize "oh that means this". I was having a conversation on the phone with someone and said "yes" in the same way I do when I release H and he comes bounding in from the other room where he was in a down for his play time. I had said yes five times before but he ignored me because it wasn't HIS yes. My mother asks him all the time for things and he ignores her 100%, versus me when I say "here" he knows it's not a question.
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
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Posts: 4891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:46 pm

One thing though, is to have different commands than you would use in regular chatter. I made the mistake of using YES as a marker for Sadie. So even in regular conversation, if one of the kids asked for something and I said YES, Sadie would come in and sit by me waiting for a reward. This is one reason I kept the French for the commands for them .
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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MultiPurposeK9
Green Dog
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:40 am
Tell us about yourself: Multipurpose trainer

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by MultiPurposeK9 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:06 pm

It was mentioned in a previous post about strong firm command, Not sure if volume plays a role? It shouldn't, in a tactical situation you don't want to give away your location by raising the volume it is just simply " reviere"
and it is just above a whisper. The dog knows the cue, at any volume It was also mentioned to get the dogs attention someone jumps around and acts silly, I hope that is in the reward stage not the cuing stage. Jumping around and acting silly in front of a high prey drive Dutch might get a response you weren't intending. Ouch! Lisa brings up a great point. language.......if you are doing sport or protection I would always recommend something other than English.
Roger
Consistency + Repetition = Predictability

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
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Posts: 4891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:21 pm

I found volume does not matter, just tone. If I said, in a lauging way, 'sit", they would look at me like im an idiot. But if I said, in the same volume but serious, "sit" Sadie would sit. It is important to separate chatter talk from when you want them to listen. You dont want them to start ignoring a normal firm command and start raising your tone only to have them only listen to you while your volume is higher.

I can whisper "sit" to sadie and she will do it.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:21 pm

I found volume does not matter, just tone. If I said, in a lauging way, 'sit", they would look at me like im an idiot. But if I said, in the same volume but serious, "sit" Sadie would sit. It is important to separate chatter talk from when you want them to listen. You dont want them to start ignoring a normal firm command and start raising your tone only to have them only listen to you while your volume is higher.

I can whisper "sit" to sadie and she will do it.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Owned-By-Hendrix
Training Dog
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:40 am
Tell us about yourself: Dutch Shepherd Owner.

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:23 pm

Strong firm does not mean shout it like in some venues. It means tone. If you go "sit" and pitch your voice up at the end, it has a different feel than "sit" and pitch your tone down. My friend has her dog trained and all her commands vocally "tilt up" like a valley girl at the end. She doesn't normally speak like that. So doesn't matter if she says yes five thousand times, if it's not in that tone her dog won't pay attention. For H, mine have a specific cadence and pitch that are different from my speaking voice. I know a trainer who makes up words. I also know one who trains only in signals. The key here is consistency. Same tone, same response, drilled. Same hand, game response. Etc etc etc.

Edited to add I disagree about choosing something other than English for sport/protection. Under high stress scenarios your brain reaches for the first word it learned, which is usually English. Some of the LE trainers I have learned from frown at basic commands in anything other than English because in a high stress reaction the handlers aren't yelling "asi" or "sitz" they're yelling "sit" because they speak English. Search/find commands do not fall into this category. Unless you are bilingual, if your chances for engagement are high and you are not trained, English is the better option. And if your dog is responding to others giving commands, then you got a problem. H listens to me and me alone in high stress environments, even if others are yelling his commands.
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

brindledog
Puppy
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:04 am
Tell us about yourself: I love Shepherds- German, Dutch and Belgian. I recently lost my 16.5 y/o GSD mix and was hoping to find a GSD or DS mix. I totally lucked out in finding Grendel, a DS/GSD mix at 9.5 weeks old. She was filthy and flea-ridden, but still the cutest, craziest thing ever. She's going to live up to her name! First dog I've had that I've actually seen the parents and definitely know what she is!

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by brindledog » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:51 pm

Well, the one good thing with Grendel is that from the beginning I've used hand gestures for sit, lie and stay. I've found that when she won't listen to my command, she still responds to gestures the majority of the time. This is nice when we're in public, as I can get her to sit or lie without saying anything.

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by Dutchringgirl » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:56 am

I see your point about not using a different language. Although I am for using a different language. Personally, I never had a problem with regressing to english under stress, but the problem I DO have is using french on ALL other dogs I have been around and wondering why they DONT listen. :whistle: I kept telling my parents Basset to ASSI and wonder why the hell she isnt ???? Not that bassets listen anyway, but then I realized I was giving her french commands.

ALl of us trained in french and even the police used German and never had a problem but I see your point.

I do agree that what ever you decide there must be a difference and consistent.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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cordeliandemon
Training Dog
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:35 am
Tell us about yourself: owner of a male Dutch Shepherd and female Alaskan Malamute
Location: Ireland

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by cordeliandemon » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:34 pm

I agree with all being said that the tone for commands needs to be consistent , for both demon and koda they mostly ignore you unless you put on the "serious" voice.
I also use hand signals for both dogs which I've found to be very useful, they even seem to respond better to silent commands. I prefer it in public or when I have guests over as it's not necessarily anyone else's business what me and my dog are communicating and I'm generally a quiet person anyway. Also may turn useful should either dog start going deaf in old age, which was the original motive for using hand signals or "doggy sign language" with them.
Cordelia -
Demon (dutch shepherd)
Koda (alaskan malamute)
Sidney (collie/springer spaniel)- R.I.P

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Name Recognition/recall?

Post by Dutchringgirl » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:40 pm

You make great points Cordelia. Although for Thalie, I havent given her commands in years, at the old age point, they are usually trained enough to know the routine. Plus, she is also not seeing as well so she would not see my hand gesture anyway LOL
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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