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Help needed with ds

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Susannah
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Tell us about yourself: 29 year old nurse. 2 year old dutch shepherd at home and iguana.

Help needed with ds

Post by Susannah » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:24 pm

So, my longhaired ds girl is sort off been outta control. Lot better now, but i kinda feel i need advice for us to get break through.

She is wary of strangers, for the trainer we udes said : * she goes straight attack mode and goes very end of it too*.
She tolerants people yes, and dogs from afar, but if someone is exlb jogging behinds us or walking and following, it is a trigger. Also our neighborhood and our yard is trigger.

Another propl. Is the very high drive, she goes blind zone for smelling wild rabbit and off she goes then. Have been using invisible fence for that but she kinda ignores and then she has to do the frusthration for something. Even tree is fine then.

So, what do u suggest? Ringing bells, same proplems? I am not doing her to be everyone pet dog, just it wont do that she launches at everyone in the yard.

Trainer also said i should check her testosterone levels. Its because she is always *looking for a fight* outside and marking and leveling ground everywhere.

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centrop67
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Tell us about yourself: Accidental DS rescuer. Human companion to Radar and Leela. Owner of the site, looking to make this the top site for information and discussion on Dutch Shepherds.
Location: Cutler Bay, FL, USA

Re: Help needed with ds

Post by centrop67 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:21 am

Reactive dogs are tough. It's a long road to any success. I have heard success stories, but I can tell you from personal experience with Radar that it isn't easy. We've actually had to change our strategy to do everything possible to avoid the triggers.

I am participating in a workshop next month for reactive dogs with Meagan Karnes (aka The Collared Scholar), and you may find some insight in this article -> https://www.collared-scholar.com/dont-w ... ngs-worse/

Early on, I did some classical conditioning exercises with a trainer. After a week of consistent work, Radar successfully ignored the other dog, but we have not been able to recreate it with other dogs on a regular basis.

I've seen trainers advertise a board-and-train program for reactive dogs, but I honestly don't trust the potential behind-the-scenes tactics or a methodology where the owner/handler isn't an integral part of the program.

All of the available material on working with reactivity is based on early identification of the trigger, and attracting and holding the attention of the dog while the trigger is present.

We walk Radar in a remote location, but we still get an occasional bicycle or critter during the walks. We have been successful in stopping the lunging and barking by getting his focus early, but we still have days when we miss the early signs, or a cyclist decides to ride by without warning.

I wish you luck, and I hope you are diligent in treating the problem.
Michael
The pack -> Radar (DS), Leela (Mal?), and Karen (Human) - Cutler Bay, FL USA
RIP: Tequila and Snickers
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

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Dutchringgirl
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Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
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Re: Help needed with ds

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:16 pm

I agree with Michael as to how to work with this type of dog. Look into the workshop too.

When I was training DS for sport, we would work long and hard about having them ignore other stimuli. Its not about training them NOT to react but to ignore and only pay attention to you. The more drive and reactive the dog, the more you have to train.

In our training room, we would put the dog in a down stay, and put a hamster in a ball and let it roll around, the dog had to ignore the hamster and pay attention to the handler. Once that was mastered then we would move to higher stimuli. then to the decoy highly agitating the dog and the dog paying no mind until we said he could go bite.

I know you are not doing bite work but its the same idea. YOU have to be the main attention of the dog.

These dogs are bred for protection so you have a dog that is doing the job they are supposed to. Its just that you do not require the intensity of the job.

My Sadie is a very high drive high reactive dog. She is 9 now and It took me a long time of working with her ( i was not with my trainer any more) in town and making her sit stay and looking at me and ignoring people and dogs as they walked by.

You have a LOT to work on, you need to be working with a trainer at least a few times a week and a ton at home. There is no way we can walk you through everything since much of this takes months to years of training.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Susannah
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Tell us about yourself: 29 year old nurse. 2 year old dutch shepherd at home and iguana.

Re: Help needed with ds

Post by Susannah » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:14 pm

At home we have been used own place command and after visiters sit, dog can go sniffing. Thats all she does, really and then its fine whoever is in here with me. Also nicely puts up our iguana, witch roams free and when goes behind sofa or up to curtains, dog comes to me beeping. For at least i say reactions aint as bad as gsd had, and she also tolerates other dogs when getting to them. We have been used friends dogs which are now her buddies. Still she does play, maybe 10 min and after that ignores all attemps friend dogs trie to make to get her play, shes more like * hi, im sniffing, thx, have a good day*. Biggest proplem is our yard which is bad cause everything is enemy. Also she goes straight to attack mode, just waiting slippery winter here, jeij.
Luckily she aint scared of noises or fireworks etc, and quite nicely comes back calm zone after.
Trainer just needs to train herself here too, i think.

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Dutchringgirl
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Re: Help needed with ds

Post by Dutchringgirl » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:38 am

of course everything is the enemy in your yard, that is her job to protect you.

You are better off with a good trainer than trying to figure it out here. These dogs need tons of training daily. Each dog is different and its is hard to figure it all out here.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Susannah
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Re: Help needed with ds

Post by Susannah » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:55 pm

Well, i had trainer, ended up beeing bad.

U know, trying to teach dog with methods like teaching small pet dogs. Didnt help at all, treat her all the time- she aint in for treats and challenches me also.

Well, we did good job with prey drive, now she wont took off and with yard is better.

Now she is in heat so have been causing me grey hairs, one day i went to shop and she was been herself only 1 hour, resulted that she has peed her waterbowl.

Now she has been pooping inside almost everyday and night also. Hopefully heat causes this, we are going to see the vet next month still, cause she have had little back proplems.

Indi
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Re: Help needed with ds

Post by Indi » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:30 am

Ok, are you still using that electric collar? Have you noticed any behavioural changes - good or bad - since you started using it? From what I understand, they can have a very bad effect on dogs when not used properly.

When dogs are on heat, they do tend to be a bit sooky or moody due to the hormonal changes and can be very aggressive with other dogs until they're receptive. This usually starts as they are coming on heat and when they are going off. Then they go back to normal.

What works best for me when my dog challenges is not to directly challenge back, but to give her a clear command (a positive command, not a negative one) like a heel, to bring her in close, and then do a couple of downs, sits and stays.

In my experience this does a couple of things: it breaks the challenging cycle by giving the dog clear direction on what it should do and getting it to work with you instead of against you. It also gives them something else to focus on. If the dog continues to carry on, I will actively use the collar and lead by giving a firm tug each time I heel, sit or down her to redirect her focus to the job. By this stage she is usually quite keen to please, because she is working and looking for positive feedback.

Once she is focused on me and the training, owner and dog become much happier with the situation. I believe the dog really does not want to be in conflict with you. It's usually a sign of frustration that she wants to do something and is not allowed, or that she's not quite sure of herself or what she is expected to do, so gets defensive.

When I see my dog starting to get frustrated, I usually direct her towards a chew toy or something to direct her frustration at before it gets to the stage of challenging. Usually this works well, and after she's had a bite or two or "killed" her rubber toy "prey", she calms down and is happy again.

There are times when you need to be firm with the dog, but not over the top, otherwise it will escalate and if you keep trying to dominate, the dog will become unsure of itself and its relationship with you and things may get worse or you may start to break the dog's spirit. Likewise, you cannot submit, because the dog learns it can dominate you and get its own way all the time. They're not so different to children :D

Being a master is not so much about being dominant as being firm, clear-headed and giving the dog a chance to work with you instead of against you. In a pack, dogs all work together for the mutual benefit of the pack. The "dominant" dog in the pack doesn't reach that position purely by bullying the other dogs: it gets there through firm, clear leadership and teamwork. Respect is earned and given. But dogs, being pack animals, will still want to challenge in order to move up the rank - just like people. If a dog is confident and secure in its position, and has everything it needs, it has no need to challenge.

These are just my thoughts on the matter. Right or wrong,I've always found it easier to work with animals rather than against them.

Also, your dog is still quite young, and will mature as it gets older. The best thing you can do is try to give her as much exercise as you can each day to release some of that pent-up energy. This will help to calm your dog down. Try to socialise her also, by taking her to new places and introducing her to new things to build her confidence and get her used to the world around her. If you are doing all these things already, then be patient, take a deep breath, and grab a toy and get her to play with you until she calms down. These are the things I would try first.

Finally, do take her to the vet and make sure she is OK. If I have been reading your posts correctly, you say she sleeps a lot and sometimes seems to lack energy - this could be a sign of a health issue. I had a dog that I thought was very lazy that seemed to run out of breath easily and was sometimes cranky and did not like to be disturbed. It turned out she had a kidney disease which was not apparent because she still looked healthy, had a shining coat and ate all her food. However, she did drink a lot of water and used to pee a lot - sometimes in the house. It wasn't her fault: it was the disease.

Don't rule out health issues. Good luck!

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Dutchringgirl
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Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
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Re: Help needed with ds

Post by Dutchringgirl » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:56 pm

keep looking for a trainer until you find one.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Susannah
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Tell us about yourself: 29 year old nurse. 2 year old dutch shepherd at home and iguana.

Re: Help needed with ds

Post by Susannah » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:03 am

Behavioral proplems went bad when we had no electric collar and went to treating and doing like the trainer said. Thats the point. She chooses fight everytime. Trainer said her zone to attack is over 70 meters. So u see, its guite a bit.
With collar and german methods i took this to better way, she started to listen me, we get over people and she even started to wawe tail and took treats. Then trainer said these are bad methods. Buhaha..

Susannah
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Tell us about yourself: 29 year old nurse. 2 year old dutch shepherd at home and iguana.

Re: Help needed with ds

Post by Susannah » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:02 pm

Okei. We are making progress. Now she loves all people who come our apartment. Seeks petting, laying her head on their legs. Lickin feets. Fine.
But people in our yard are enemies. Outside the yard they are fine, just wants to sniff them. She has muzzle all the time, just to make sure, but winter is coming and i will be screwed up when there are slippery cause she pulls. Alot.

She is very intelligent, now she knows to take my socks off, bring the mail, turn out lights.

But other people in our corridor are afraid. So what do u suggest to do? Thats our only proplem now cause she even tolerants other dogs.

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borellar15
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Re: Help needed with ds

Post by borellar15 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:02 pm

Dutchringgirl wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:56 pm
keep looking for a trainer until you find one.
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Alex - Zoey(DS) Austin, Texas

Susannah
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Tell us about yourself: 29 year old nurse. 2 year old dutch shepherd at home and iguana.

Re: Help needed with ds

Post by Susannah » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:10 pm

Ok. I havent been able to tell our whereabouts for quite some time.

She has been making big progress, we dont use muzzle anymore, but colar on the muzzle.

Helped gratest, i can turn dogs abouts away, and when our starting reaction poin where(the point she aint for treats) 40 meters, it is now 10 meters under and she takes them. Without barking or stiffiness.

With strangers there are been bringers of the local postoffice, electricityman, and my friends, and dog is like come all in and she is so into cuddle with them. Still leaving is hard, anyone can come but not go.

Progress is huge still.

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