Clicker and treats?

[tofflemireally]

I never understood the clicker. I either used food as a reward or I used a toy as a reward, as well as my voice. Does anyone use a clicker and 'only' a clicker after the use of treats has been stopped? If so how well does it generally work for them in getting the dog to respond to commands? Are treats always the best way to train a dog?

[Dutchringgirl]

the clicker replaces your verbal. So Instead of saying " Good" then treat, you click then treat. You dont use the clicker if there wont be a treat. Clicker/ reward, or toy training is a preference of the handler / dog.

I dont use clicker, its one more thing I have to remember to have around me. I have always used toy rewards. I dont use food, as again, its just something else to bring along, Toys are always available at my house.

If the dog has a low food drive, then use a toy, if they have a high food drive then you can use food. If they have both then its up to you.

either way, once the command has been done, you have 3 seconds to reward or they wont make the association.

[Raven]

A better and more efficient method is marker training. It's basically what Lisa described, but check out Michael Ellis videos on Leerburg for the nuances of marker training. Just choose a word (as a marker) that you don't casually/commonly use without thinking. (Ellis uses "Yes!" I use it, too.)

[LyonsFamily]

What Lisa said is correct. I use a clicker to teach precise behaviors because it's quicker and more consistent than my voice and sometimes it just gets annoying to say YES! in rapid succession, but you never fade the reward from the clicker, you just fade the clicker from the training. The clicker is actually better since the found is consistent and is proved to have a better response in the brain, but it's only as good as the handler and it has more of a learning curve compared to a verbal.

My dogs are trained on verbal markers and clickers. I have 2 different verbal markers YES! and GOOD. YES! means that a treat is coming immediately and the dog can be released, the same as a clicker. Good means the behavior was correct, but it is part of a behavior chain and the dog should hold position until another command is given. In that case, the reward for a GOOD is another command, rather than the end treat or toy. The end reward is given with a YES!

That's how agility works. Each extra obstacle becomes a reward for the previous correctly performed obstacle and at the end, the dog gets the tug.

The Michael Ellis video is good, but long and dragged out because they're mainly just recordings from his classes and seminars all smooshed into one. He does cover the difference between YES and GOOD and if you're really into training, you might find it worth while. There are some basic videos on youtube under the Kikopup channel if you want something shorter and to the point.

[Dutchringgirl]

Be very careful with using " YES " for a marker word. I made the mistake With sadie by using YES and everytime my kids asked me something and I said YES< Sadie would run over to me for a treat, and I had no idea what I just taught her. So if you have kids, maybe use clicker training.

[LyonsFamily]

Be very careful with using " YES " for a marker word. I made the mistake With sadie by using YES and everytime my kids asked me something and I said YES< Sadie would run over to me for a treat, and I had no idea what I just taught her. So if you have kids, maybe use clicker training.

Or don't be nice to your kids and always say no. haha

But yes, make sure your markers aren't used in every day conversation. You could use another language as well or any other one syllable, easy to remember word.

[Raven]

Just choose a word (as a marker) that you don't casually/commonly use without thinking. (Ellis uses "Yes!" I use it, too.)

I should have clarified my saying not to use a commonly used word vs. me using "Yes!"

As stated, I said not to use a word commonly used, and then said I use "Yes!" In normal speech, though, I don't say it with the enthusiasm I do when using it to mark, and in normal speech, and I also tend to say "correct" or "right" or "yeah" more than "yes." (That said, years ago when training a new dog at home, I found myself replying to my staff at work the same as to the dog. "Yes!"--like I was applauding five-year-old kids rather than answering adults.)

but check out Michael Ellis videos on Leerburg

Guess I should have further clarified this, too:

There are lots of free marker training short-short videos on Leerburg; if someone is familiar with clicker training, they can glean the highlights of the marker system since these are the things Ellis addresses in the free short ones online.

And if you do have kids (as Lisa mentioned) you can just pick another word.

I've done both clicker and marker, both with excellent results. I, personally, don't like to fumble with the clicker, or try to remember the clicker, etc. And since every minute is a training minute with a new or problematic dog, my voice is always available, and the dog is responding to it/me.

Has everyone noticed the OP stopped posting new threads and hasn't been replying? We're just talking to each other...

[MultiPurposeK9]

I always start puppies or green dogs on a clicker to mark new behaviors with food as the primary reinforcer and praise as my secondary reinforcer. Once the behavior is learned I begin building drive in distance duration and distraction with a toy as my primary reinforcer. I try and keep talking to a minimum between handler and dog when training. To much chatter becomes a distraction in the initial start of learning new behaviors. We seldom use the dogs name. We let them offer the behavior, mark it with a clicker then reward it. Once the behavior is learned and is done after a number of repetitions then we add a verbal cue, mark that then reward. In time the marker is faded in the form of a clicker an replaced with a verbal marker followed by primary reinforcer.

[Raven]

To much chatter becomes a distraction

Absolutely. Good point. It dilutes the power. (With any method, clicker, marker or otherwise.)

[Dutchringgirl]

Has everyone noticed the OP stopped posting new threads and hasn't been replying? We're just talking to each other...

HA, Ive noticed that. Its okay.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

I do clicker training and then marker training to proof/clean up the behavior - just seems to work for H and way easier than my mouth marking something while learning before my brain processes it (they apparently don't talk to each other, my mouth and brain that is). I'm also fairly silent while using the clicker unless it's he's done something very good, then it's happy party praise as I give him a jackpot of treats. Once he understands what I'm asking, and before I start the transition to marker words (which honestly usually is a result of my mouth marking with the clicker before soon I forget to find the clicker for training), he doesn't like the silence with just the clicker and gets rather grumpy with me. He wants the feedback of my voice/body language while he's refining the behavior.

Also does anyone else find themselves stressing out the s on "yes" so you sound like some nefarious villain on a cartoon? No? Jussssst me?

[Stacy_R]

That said, years ago when training a new dog at home, I found myself replying to my staff at work the same as to the dog. "Yes!"--like I was applauding five-year-old kids rather than answering adults.

This made me laugh out loud for real. Primarily because I can relate, except that instead of it being with staff at work it was with my husband and step-son....