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bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

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froggy59
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Tell us about yourself: hello so i am new to owning a dutch shepherd and I'm making this account mainly because regular websites is a waist of time and in order to get good information on raising these types of dogs.i found the best way is to sign up to a forum with people who actually have experience with these dogs. so little about me, well in a few years i will be joining the military and maybe even come a dog handler who knows yet. i absolutely love dogs and i want to learn how to be able to train my dog the best that i can. i am an active and run everyday i love being around dogs and will be getting a dutch shepherd in a few months. i signed up so i can get advice on bringing a male dutch shepherd in a home with a male GSD and two small bossy female dogs and get expert advice on the temperament of these dogs.

bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by froggy59 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:15 am

hello so i am new here and well I'm getting a new puppy in a few months. little back ground info I'm based out of california and well i have a male GSD at home who is out family dog we love him to death and we have two small bossy female dogs as well. now the female dogs just ehh lay there and bitch at my GSD max for no reason probably cuz he's super hyper. anyways he isn't the most dog friendly dog mainly cuz he watched through a window as a puppy of me getting chased by a pitiful. ever since then he isn't the best however i have been doing my best socializing him. last week with a friend i took him and my friend had his female gsd go to the park together to play. now his female didn't care for toys and just wanted to play with my dog, but my dog just wanted to play with his toys i mean at first he was a grumpy jerk to the poor girl but then he got better over time and just nipped nothing serious once he got the hint she's a friendly. so anyways my question is mainly, this dutchie is gonna be my working dog he's gonna be mine mine and mine. i want to train him everything but i want him to become the best of friends with my Gsd mainly cuz i think my GSD needs a good friend besides us humans and the small female dogs are just lazy and bitchy. so i come to you guys the experts for advice on bringing home a new male puppy in the mix.


i know some will say get a female!!!!!!!!!!!! but i really want a male and i also read that is will be easier to have male and male bonding than is would be bringing home yet another 3rd female home. i want to give this new dog an amazing home and want the process to go smoothly, any info will help.

froggy59
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Tell us about yourself: hello so i am new to owning a dutch shepherd and I'm making this account mainly because regular websites is a waist of time and in order to get good information on raising these types of dogs.i found the best way is to sign up to a forum with people who actually have experience with these dogs. so little about me, well in a few years i will be joining the military and maybe even come a dog handler who knows yet. i absolutely love dogs and i want to learn how to be able to train my dog the best that i can. i am an active and run everyday i love being around dogs and will be getting a dutch shepherd in a few months. i signed up so i can get advice on bringing a male dutch shepherd in a home with a male GSD and two small bossy female dogs and get expert advice on the temperament of these dogs.

Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by froggy59 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:20 am

and sorry for the spelling and grammar issues i wrote this late at night, but i am a very serious dog owner and love my animals this dog will be in a good home but I'm on here so i can learn to give this dog an even better home.

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Dutchringgirl
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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by Dutchringgirl » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:49 pm

Hi !
froggy59 wrote:hello so i am new here and well I'm getting a new puppy in a few months. little back ground info I'm based out of california and well i have a male GSD at home who is out family dog we love him to death and we have two small bossy female dogs as well. now the female dogs just ehh lay there and bitch at my GSD max for no reason
There is always a reason, it may not be apparent to you but there is always a reason dogs do what they do. Watch the body language.
froggy59 wrote: probably cuz he's super hyper. anyways he isn't the most dog friendly dog mainly cuz he watched through a window as a puppy of me getting chased by a pitiful. ever since then he isn't the best however i have been doing my best socializing him.
Please explain what you mean by socializing. It can mean a few different things and some of witch, are not necessary.
froggy59 wrote: last week with a friend i took him and my friend had his female gsd go to the park together to play. now his female didn't care for toys and just wanted to play with my dog, but my dog just wanted to play with his toys
He wasnt being a grumpy jerk, that is humanizing the dog. your dog didnt want to play, that should be respected. His "jerkyness" was him telling her he didnt want to play. There is nothing wrong with him not wanting to play and that should be respected. Not all dogs should be made to play together.
froggy59 wrote: i mean at first he was a grumpy jerk to the poor girl but then he got better over time and just nipped nothing serious once he got the hint she's a friendly. so anyways my question is mainly, this dutchie is gonna be my working dog he's gonna be mine mine and mine. i want to train him everything
What is everything? What work will you do?

froggy59 wrote: but i want him to become the best of friends with my Gsd
That is humanizing the dogs, You want them to be best of friends. Dogs dont want to be everyone's BFF, they want to work, not talk shop all day,

DS are not meant to be everyone's BFF they are to be alone working in the fields or with a cop or doing something solo. What if the dog dosnt want to be BFF with your current dogs? Then what will you do?

What lines are you looking at?
froggy59 wrote:
mainly cuz i think my GSD needs a good friend
again,you are humanizing the dog. how do you know the dog needs a friend? You said you have two others?
froggy59 wrote:
besides us humans and the small female dogs are just lazy and bitchy.
what are they trying to tell you, dogs are not bitchy just for the sake of it and they have nothing else to do. They are talking and communicating, it is your job to find out what they are trying to tell you. Like a baby crying, they cant talk the way we do so as their guardian, it is your responsibility to figure it out.

froggy59 wrote:
so i come to you guys the experts for advice on bringing home a new male puppy in the mix.

My first reaction is it is a bad idea to bring another male into the house. Learning body language and what the dogs are telling you is very important and from what you have said, I feel you dong know how to read them.

A DS will feed off of your lack of body language talk and take advantage of you.

I think you are looking for big trouble. I would not even say get a female. I would not bring in any DS until you do some research and get the crew you already have understood.
froggy59 wrote:
i know some will say get a female!!!!!!!!!!!! but i really want a male
Again, you are only talking about what you want, not what is best for the animals, this is a recipe for disaster.
froggy59 wrote: and i also read that is will be easier to have male and male bonding than is would be bringing home yet another 3rd female home. i want to give this new dog an amazing home and want the process to go smoothly, any info will help.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by Raven » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:56 pm

I'm going to try something new here....

Froggy, I'd like for you to tell us everything you know about Dutch shepherds. I mean, everything.

Oh, and welcome!
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by Dutchringgirl » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:05 pm

Thanks for that Sharon, good idea. I was thinking that too when I was writing.
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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by Stacy_R » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:12 pm

froggy59 wrote:but i want him to become the best of friends with my Gsd mainly cuz i think my GSD needs a good friend besides us humans ...
Dogs don't necessarily "need" friends like humans do...this is a human emotion that we unfairly put on our dogs. Some dogs don't want friends and never will. Your GSD may be one of those. You need to respect what he is telling you (and other animals). He may or may not become friends with your new pup, and that is 100% okay. You need to work with both dogs on respecting space for a successful integration.
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froggy59
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Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:02 am
Tell us about yourself: hello so i am new to owning a dutch shepherd and I'm making this account mainly because regular websites is a waist of time and in order to get good information on raising these types of dogs.i found the best way is to sign up to a forum with people who actually have experience with these dogs. so little about me, well in a few years i will be joining the military and maybe even come a dog handler who knows yet. i absolutely love dogs and i want to learn how to be able to train my dog the best that i can. i am an active and run everyday i love being around dogs and will be getting a dutch shepherd in a few months. i signed up so i can get advice on bringing a male dutch shepherd in a home with a male GSD and two small bossy female dogs and get expert advice on the temperament of these dogs.

Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by froggy59 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:10 pm

that makes a lot of sense because when my GSD met with the girl she was already a submissive dog so he stopped barking pretty quick and he did only snap when she would get to pushy because she is young and immature so i believe he was just putting her in line.

and i won't be getting the dog for another four months, and in that time i have decided to come to this forum for extra research. i been doing most of my research online but i got paid today so i will be getting books and in the past i learned a few things from a guy who did shutzhund training, and with his training i used on my GSD. don't get me wrong my GSD is an amazing dog super protective over kids extremely smart and lovable.

but i would like to get a dutch shepherd because i want to be able learn myself how to fully train a dog and to become a good handler, i mean these things take experience and each dog i own becomes better and better.

so you ask what i know about dutch shepherds, well i know they are working dogs well there is a working and a show line but they are an extreme focused and hyperactive dog. they ant for most handlers because of their need to work they constantly want to work and need tons of exercise. they ant a dog to just be left alone all day well no dog really is. but i know if raised right they are the best dogs in the world and will be loyal to their owners. i also now they are more of a healthier breed especially if bought from a good breeder. They just need to be worked and again like any other dog if raised right will be amazing with the family

I've always been alright with understanding behavior i know that is one huge part of training and i do try reading his behavior a lot just when he was with the other GSD for some reason i was so happy he was off leash with another dog it didn't even click to read his behavior but you guys are totally right and this is why i signed up but again i have looking for articles and books that will explain how to do this better.

froggy59
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Tell us about yourself: hello so i am new to owning a dutch shepherd and I'm making this account mainly because regular websites is a waist of time and in order to get good information on raising these types of dogs.i found the best way is to sign up to a forum with people who actually have experience with these dogs. so little about me, well in a few years i will be joining the military and maybe even come a dog handler who knows yet. i absolutely love dogs and i want to learn how to be able to train my dog the best that i can. i am an active and run everyday i love being around dogs and will be getting a dutch shepherd in a few months. i signed up so i can get advice on bringing a male dutch shepherd in a home with a male GSD and two small bossy female dogs and get expert advice on the temperament of these dogs.

Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by froggy59 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:16 pm

Dutchringgirl wrote:Thanks for that Sharon, good idea. I was thinking that too when I was writing.
thank you for the help, i sound like a huge amateur on here but i have been doing this for awhile, i used to just have golden retrievers they were super easy the shepherd was hard but amazing and smart thats why it was harder he is smart! but i love that type of dog. i know how to do a lot of training up to i would say intermediate level. It is mainly the socializing to get the dog to become i wouldn't say friends but to not be wary of other dogs because we take the GSD everywhere i mean everywhere same with the DS in a few months, but my main concern is basically to raise these two dogs in sync. one is going to be our family dog and one is going to be strictly mine and if they dong wanna be friends thats fine with me but i just don't want fighting just maybe mutual respect.

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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by Raven » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:46 pm

Thank you, Froggy, for appreciating our concerns and not being defensive.

I'm not going to offer tips/advice on bringing a M or F DSD into your multi-dog household--not that I could, but even if I could, I wouldn't, especially because of the honesty that you've shown so far. (Thank you, again, for that.) I just don't think it's a good time and I don't think you're ready. Your expression of willingness to become a better handler does not begin with bringing a DS into your home; it begins with earnest commitment to learn about what's in/happening in your own backyard first. That's just MY opinion, though it makes perfect sense to me, of course.

It is my opinion that you need to learn more about dogs, and the dogs in your home, before bringing in a high-powered, highly driven Dutch shepherd. Does that make sense? DSs are A LOT of work, consistently, for a long time....

Concentrate on developing your handling skills, learning dog body language, how your body language/skill sets affect dogs, their training, and behaviors. I believe you want to do right by the animals in your life, but don't put the cart in front of the horse. You have plenty of time to own a DS in your lifetime. It doesn't have to be now or right away. By waiting, developing handler skills, learning more about dogs and the DS, you can better give a DS a good life--which is what you said you want to do. :)

And thank you for replying to my question about what you know about the DS. I'd like to hear more about what you know, though, if you don't mind.
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by Raven » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:01 pm

froggy59 wrote:that makes a lot of sense because when my GSD met with the girl she was already a submissive dog so he stopped barking pretty quick and he did only snap when she would get to pushy because she is young and immature so i believe he was just putting her in line.
Could be.

What if you ended up with a DS like mine? Insane high-drives (including prey drive) and is animal/dog aggressive. I adopted him at 18-months, surrendered at 14-months by a GSD cop handler; the DS grew up as a pup with GSDs and everything was fine till the DS reached eight or nine months. All hell broke loose. Hence, the eventual surrender.

We can't live our lives on what-ifs...but we do need to consider them, especially when dealing with other living beings. I offer a shadow of a glimpse into my boy's previous life because, I assure you, his previous owner had every reason to believe he was ready for a DS.
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:32 pm

I'll point out a few things that concerns me with your post, and please realize I'm not doing it to attack you or demean you but rather because I respect your commitment to be a better handler and am trying to help you see areas you could work on.

1) The fact your GSD may have some DA means bringing a potential DS puppy into the mix dangerous. Sharon already mentioned the drives making the breed possibly animal/dog aggressive, but at a young age exposure to a DA dog can set up the DS puppy for the same if not more severe case of DA. Then you have two dogs with DA in a 4 dog household. If you want to improve your handling skills, I would start with your GSD and his DA, learning how to read dog body language and handling DA. You'll learn a lot and the techniques will apply to a future DS. However, I would recommend focusing on this, mastering/learning as much as you can, and having a good long history of success while working with a qualified trainer.
2) The small dogs in the household worry me. While not a major problem, once the drives start kicking in around 6-9 months, small dogs are often seen as prey objects and DS go after them. Can training improve this possibly bad outcome? Yes. However it requires solid training and upkeep on not just the DS but also the other smaller dogs as well.
3) How old are your children? Small children can again be seen as prey to a young DS. They are very mouthy as puppies and use their mouth when they get frustrated. Mixing that with younger kids can lead to potential disaster without proper management and training of all. Again, not impossible, but as a new handler I would not advise starting with that type of situation if you have young children, especially with the added case of a possible DA GSD.
4) What will your dog be working in? Having a job is absolutely essential to the DS. How many hours a day can you spend training it, being with it, and raising it? Be honest in your answer, not only for us but for yourself. I've heard a lot of people say "Oh I can spend all day training!" but don't realize that that literally means having no social life, no family life, no way to do errands, upkeep the house, work, etc etc etc. And by training I mean dedicated time where it is just you and the pup, no one else, no kids running around, no outside distractions to pull your attention. Even going to the pet store can be considered training but that time you must make sure you're not shopping and your focus is on the young pup. This is key because proper exposure with correct management can prevent a lot of aggression problems that happens due to accidents while exposing the dog. While we all cannot control the world, being aware and focused on the dog while training helps head off a lot of these problems.
5) How familiar are you with drives and drive management? DS are nothing like GSDs and there are a LOT of behaviors purposely bred into them which make them awesome working dogs. Depending on the lines of the puppy this can also mean a PITA to live with/train/manage. Understanding the difference between prey drive and defense drive is just the tip of the ice berg - understanding how the drives are used, what they look like, how you put the dog into drive and take it out safely, behaviors that can occur in drive, and the natural drives of the dog that you can't fully train out of are where your knowledge base should lie.
6) Do you have a qualified, good, experienced trainer set up to help you? This is a must for a DS puppy.
7) Are you experienced with aggressiveness in dogs? How to ready body language? Understanding the root cause of an aggressive/fearful aggressive behavior? How to handle it training wise and as a handler? A lot of people tend to freak out when the dog comes up the lead at them, growls at them, or attempts a real bite. Understandably so. But this is also the most common ways DS communicate with us and our families and we must understand what they are saying in the situation to be able to handle it without mixing in our own fear.

I would advise that currently you should spend more time on increasing your knowledge and handling experiences. Read books, watch training videos, read discussions, and absorb everything. You can work at a shelter/rescue to increase your handling experiences and learn from others. There are a thousand different ways to train and work with dogs and not every technique works with every dog. Gaining more experience with dogs of all breeds and backgrounds will help you, as well as working with working breed dogs. Work with your dogs now, up their OB, train tricks, work on behavioral problems, learn. I would advise starting with a working line GSD before getting a DS puppy. Or GSD working line then foster an older DS. Experience will be your friend as I think a lot of what we talk about on the forum regarding DS can be foreign to most people. They think, "oh it's not that bad" or "I can handle it!" Then they get the dog and see exactly what we were talking about and most can't handle it. Not saying specifically that would apply to you; more just what I've personally seen as a generalized observation.

DS are like Ferraris of the dog world - high drive, fast, super smart, workaholics, and a joy to be around when you know what you are doing. Yes the amount of work you put into the dog pays back tenfold, but you must be able to bear the hardships of the 24-36 months of intense work, blood, sweat, tears, and pain to get to that point. They are EXTREMELY challenging even for experienced trainers. You've essentially acquired another smart child with teeth and drives and the ability to cause serious damage. There is a lot of knowledge base to learn and have experience in before getting a DS; while not REQUIRED it makes it EASIER a transition. There's a lot of stories with "I didn't realize I was teaching ____ behavior", "if I had known what I know now back then", or "whoops" moments of bad marking/reinforcing due to the DS being super smart, a quick learner, and the handler not having enough handling experience. I myself have fallen into that trap and the DS is also smart enough that fixing a mistake can take a while. It is also a breed that a potential mistake can cause harm moreso than other breeds.
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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by Dutchringgirl » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:41 pm

I didnt read the other posts, but I am sure they are awesome as they usually are, Just want to make a quick note, and I am sorry if it is already said, but I dont mean this as any insult to you but a DS is not the dog you want to learn on to become a good handler, you must be good first ( not to say you cant make mistakes but they are not very forgiving)

If you got a dog like my Sadie, someone would be dead. Just sayin
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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by Raven » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:24 pm

My guy had a very brief bio and no picture for his eventual adoption.

I read between the lines, though--they thought maybe there was a right home for this "unadoptable" beast. He wasn't considered adoptable.

It was more about what wasn't said in the bio that made me knew he was meant to be in my home. (No photo b/c he's so drop-dead handsome, everyone would've wanted him). After lengthy communications, I knew what I was getting into...but it didn't change how much my life changed, and I'd had a DS before as well as other animals labeled as behaviorally problematic (thanks to humans).
Dutchringgirl wrote:If you got a dog like my Sadie, someone would be dead. Just sayin
And there you have it.

A DS doesn't have to be a problematic adoptable/un-adoptable orphan. Their very nature makes them difficult. Either way, that's what you need to be prepared to handle. A brilliant, difficult dog.

A dog can't have that level of scary intelligence, uncanny sense of fair play, problem-solving ability, and endless energy without being difficult--difficult in ways you simply can't appreciate or imagine until you live with one. And hopefully when that happens, you are prepared for Armageddon. :D
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by k9lexi » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:08 am

froggy59 wrote:. i been doing most of my research online but i got paid today so i will be getting books
Seems like everyone has talked about almost everything except .... I can only speak about my own experience; when i bought my pup I knew it would take a chunk out of my savings account. What I didn't know is there were some health issues that required multiple trips to the vet, prescriptions, and special diet foods. This went on for several months. I was thankful their was extra money to cover the unanticipated expenses. But my personal opinion is if you are going to own pets, any kind of pets, you should have money set aside for medical emergencies.

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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by LyonsFamily » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:12 pm

froggy59 wrote:

but i would like to get a dutch shepherd because i want to be able learn myself how to fully train a dog and to become a good handler, i mean these things take experience and each dog i own becomes better and better.
I'm not saying you should get a DS, I didn't read enough or ask enough questions to know that about you, but this part concerns me a bit. If you want to know how to fully train a dog, you need to start with your current dogs, especially since you're basically admitting that the older they get, the worse they are training wise. The best way to screw up a DS is to use it as a learning tool. They do not forgive mistakes. They learn the wrong thing so fast, usually before you realize it was wrong. Train that GSD you already have. Get a CD on it, go for your CGC and BH. Learn to be a handler


I'm honestly surprised a breeder is selling you a DS without a lot of experience, especially for you to learn on. Maybe if you lived nearby the breeder and they also have a dog club, you could learn under their wing, but using it as a guinea pig is a bad, bad idea. If you have a puppy lined up, I would ask here about the breeder to make sure it's a good one.
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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by Dutchringgirl » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:21 pm

We havent heard from the OP in almost a week..................... :huh: :huh:
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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by LyonsFamily » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:25 am

Dutchringgirl wrote:We havent heard from the OP in almost a week..................... :huh: :huh:
Why do they keep disappearing!
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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by Raven » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:07 am

This came up in a post a few weeks back.

Sometimes it's made very clear they don't care to hear experienced thoughts/opinions/suggestions/etc. if it's not what they want to hear.
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

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Dutchringgirl
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Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:33 am

Yes, they dont like what they hear, even if it is the truth and they disappear.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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cordeliandemon
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Tell us about yourself: owner of a male Dutch Shepherd and female Alaskan Malamute
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Re: bringing a male dutch shepherd home to a male GSD

Post by cordeliandemon » Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:02 am

id say when it happens its usually a combination of whats already been mentioned, or the OP simply gets overwhelmed.
by that i mean ive seen some casual threads (ie. non emergency-ish asking for help ones) being abandoned by the OP now and then and the only real explanation ive come up with is that EVERYONE here wants to help them and share their knowledge/experience at the same time! :) i suppose its a good problem to have, helpful and eager forum members, but id imagine the odd newbie could feel daunted and swamped at the prospect of answering so many detailed questions from multiple askers at once (add in a form of online stage-fright and the fear of making an ass of themselves in front more experienced people). especially if they might only have time in their day for brief responses, who knows?

(not talking about this OP in particular, i havent read everything in this one start to finish)
Cordelia -
Demon (dutch shepherd)
Koda (alaskan malamute)
Sidney (collie/springer spaniel)- R.I.P

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