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Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

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ralbucks
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Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by ralbucks » Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:39 pm

Hello everyone,

My puppy ( 9 months old) displays the most curious (to me) behavior when he is outside compared to when he is at home and maybe some on the forum have an explanation. In the house, my puppy has the best behavior. I can also take away his food, toys,if required, and he does not object. When he is outside, with lots of people and noises around, he becomes possessive of his rawhide bone. He growls and does not let me take it. Where is the difference? I am the one trying to take it in both cases. And the same bone creates two different reactions.He also is very sensitive to loud noises, but this gets amplified if he is outside. If there is thunder and he is inside, he may bark once or not and that's it. If he is outside and he hears thunder, he will bark 4 to 5 times. Why does he get stressed out so much outside? Thanks.

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Owned-By-Hendrix
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Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:30 am

Sounds like you haven't worked environmentals enough. He sounds unsure and unconfident, hence the guarding and sensitivity.
Kay
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(Tyson's Soul Twin)

ralbucks
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Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by ralbucks » Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:00 am

Thanks. I agree. I put so much effort in socializing him that I guess I did not realize he might be scared of people, situations or locations. But what environmentals should we focus on? I know people making loud noises disturbs him.I mean he may be scared of a lot of things outside (including black leaves, which he has overcome) and takes that fear and transforms it into possessiveness or just uncharacteristic behavior. How can you make a dog more confident then? Reassure him, positive reinforcement? If there is a thread already about the topic please let me know. Somewhere on the web, as I checked an example for the need of environmental training, it says dogs trained for protection can be very comfortable while in the training field, but then can react very scared and not perform well when the venue of their bite work changes.

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Dutchringgirl
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Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:20 pm

I agree that he needs more stimulation around what he is still worried about. He is also at the age of coming into his own and learning his job and place in the world.

what they really need is to learn to ignore everything, not get used to it and like it.

When I trained ring sport, they were trained to LOOK at us and ignore everything around them.

I can take Thalie through a mob of what ever you can think of and she will look at me the whole time and walk by my side and not even bother with anything else.

So its not really taking them and just exposing, but teaching them to focus on YOU and not whats around them.

Also, just being out in the back yard, playing or doing some training while someone is making noise, or doing something else, keeping the focus on you.

We used to train in all different places, so they do get used to working anywhere and not bothering with what is around them. all they do is focus on the handler until the command is given.

WIth Sadie, she will always be nervouse, of course at home and regular places she is better, but last weekend, I went with my parents to the Bronx to walk around. Thalie could care less about anything, but Sadie was soooooo nervous, her tail was between her legs and she was sucked right up against Thalie. Sadie has always been in the country. Her ears were back in the worried place, and she was looking around. But after about half an hour or so, she settled in, sniffed every crevasse, and walk walking on her own ( thalie was happy) and her tail was up wagging.

Sadie knows "Look" so she would focus on me and then would calm down after a bit
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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ICE
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Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by ICE » Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:12 pm

Lisa is exactly right - they need to ignore everything and concentrate on you.
When I trial in agility there are tons of people and dogs in a very small space. ICE needs to ignore it all and work with me. He knows I will make sure other dogs or people don't approach him. I feel that agility is the hardest sport to trial in - they seem to be the least respectful of space and have the least available space at a trial.
I work with ICE a lot at home but always take advantage of anywhere we go to get out his toy and practice any of his commands.
Patty and Ice

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Dutchringgirl
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Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
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Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:18 pm

Ring sport was good about that, people kept their dogs away from others and were respectful. They were hard core so they knew to keep away from others, where in Agility, its all sorts of breeds and pet type dogs and they don't really get the idea of keeping dogs apart.

I seem to think people dont really understand that its not about socializing in the human way, that the dog should like every one and every thing and every noise and be fine. Thats a human want and desire.

Its about having the dog ignore everything and focus on you.

Dogs are not humans, they are meant to have jobs and bond to one human.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:23 pm

I agree to an extent. If proper exploration and curiosity was not encouraged during time as a young pup, if they never had time to simply explore and learn about the world, then you will be fighting a nervous inclination in every environment trying to get the dog to focus on you. To fix that would mean working backwards and addressing the fear first before they could settle enough/trust you enough to give focus. Ideally genetics should be enough to counteract this, but that's not always the case. With dogs with unknown genetics or back stories, I'm more inclined to spend more time just letting them see and experience tons of sounds, objects, places, and situations, before I begin showing them that by focusing on me, scary things can be conquered. Personally I prefer a bit of independence so will encourage the dog to go off and explore and problem solve on their own, but that's me and what we work in.

I think you best advice at this point is to pinpoint the why behind his behavior. Is it a lack of time to explore as a young pup and become secure in himself and you? Bad past experiences with exposure to new environments? Or is he looking a leader when he gets overwhelmed? Not all of these have the exact same paths and working techniques, and your dog will tell you what he needs to overcome it, so listening to him and his body language is essential.
Kay
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ralbucks
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Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by ralbucks » Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:20 pm

:) Well, I think all the suggestions are great and very detailed. I"m a little bit more relaxed today about it. I tried the same thing today and he did not growl. Started giving him more verbal praise and a few treats. Someone put some balloons at low level tied to a post today next to a very busy intersection. I guess he has not seen balloons moving around before, he got in a defensive position, started barking, but before he even started barking I gave him treats and said "it's OK". I knew he would do that. Just a side note, but not an explanation to his behavior: my puppy has been suffering from a bout of diarrhea since yesterday night and I'm thinking that had to do with his exaggerated and very irritated behavior yesterday. We are on a rice and chicken diet right now.Thanks everyone.

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brindledog
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Tell us about yourself: I love Shepherds- German, Dutch and Belgian. I recently lost my 16.5 y/o GSD mix and was hoping to find a GSD or DS mix. I totally lucked out in finding Grendel, a DS/GSD mix at 9.5 weeks old. She was filthy and flea-ridden, but still the cutest, craziest thing ever. She's going to live up to her name! First dog I've had that I've actually seen the parents and definitely know what she is!

Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by brindledog » Tue May 03, 2016 8:07 pm

This is a good topic for me to know more about!

Grendel is a nervous dog. No doubt about it. But I just bought the Leerburg obedience training DVD/stream, and from their description, she has somewhat bad nerves, but she's not soft. I.e. she can be skittish in public, but needs fairly stern corrections to get a result, and doesn't freak out/cower from a correction.

That said, many things seem to initially freak her out. Not horribly, but enough to make her jump out of the way/avoid. The other day it was a mylar balloon floating next to sidewalk. She backed away. So I started giving her treats as I got her closer to balloon. After about a minute, she decided to attack the balloon. After another 30 seconds or so, she picked up the string and started carrying the balloon down the street.
I'm glad that she is trainable around this stuff, and generally pretty easily (did same thing with tires on the ground, and now she will jump in and out of them and sit atop of them), BUT with this type of nervousness, I find it very difficult to get her to pay attention to me in public.
I have been working with her daily on her name recognition per the trainer, but I find she is better at looking at me with the "look" command.
But when there is anything else going on...dog, someone playing ball, noise...forget it.
What am I doing wrong?
Additionally, though she's gotten better about not barking at people I talk to on the street, if they try to pet her or get within a couple feet (at my beckoning), she will suddenly start barking in a very aggressive manner and even lunge at or jump on the person. The weird part is that she does this with people she seems to like.
She's also becoming less motivated by treats. I bought a jute tug (which she shied away from for the first 30 seconds and now doesn't want to leave alone), and she actually responds to that better than treats. But it's big and not practical to carry all over. So what do I use when going out in public?!

I'm frustrated.

Lisa G.

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Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Tue May 03, 2016 9:52 pm

Which Leerburg DVD? There's a few. If you want to get more into DVDs, check out Bowowflix. All the Leerburg catalog is in there for a fraction of the cost. Depending on the DVD I would advise being a bit wary of the advice on it.

As for Grendel, it is possible she needs more environmental and social work (social as in not meeting people). If a dog is nervous like that but can work through it, I'm all about a ton of exposure and environmental work. Just working through it in all sorts of ways. You can also work them in drive up to a scary thing, they look at it, and work them in drive away, and back again...a tug is a good thing. There are smaller tugs you can try; look at the 8-10 inch ones from elite K9 or K9 tactical gear. There's even some that are flat and made to "fold" up to fit in a pocket.

For people, this has worked for a few members, and was a technique recommended by Les. Play tug with her around new people. Don't talk to them, second she sees them pull out the tug and start tugging. I believe there's a post from Kitsune on here talking about it and it did wonders for her.

As for the attention... Part of that is age, maturation, and not having worked through distractions as part of training. Some call this part of puppyhood engagement training and others consider it a part of advanced obedience. I think of it as part of the growing up stage that never goes away. I would honestly focus on engagement and working through what she's nervous about first. You need a good foundation to build off of for obedience.

When she barks, is it aggressive, being an asshole, or fear?
Kay
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(Tyson's Soul Twin)

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brindledog
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Tell us about yourself: I love Shepherds- German, Dutch and Belgian. I recently lost my 16.5 y/o GSD mix and was hoping to find a GSD or DS mix. I totally lucked out in finding Grendel, a DS/GSD mix at 9.5 weeks old. She was filthy and flea-ridden, but still the cutest, craziest thing ever. She's going to live up to her name! First dog I've had that I've actually seen the parents and definitely know what she is!

Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by brindledog » Wed May 04, 2016 4:10 am

Thanks for that reply. It's very helpful.
I actually did use tug yesterday when we were out and she saw other dogs. It was pretty effective.
I honestly don't know the motivation behind the barking in the scenario I described. Her usual fear behavior is to pull away, not go towards what is scaring her. And the people she's barking at tend to be dog people that are interested/ like her, not people afraid of her. It really seems like she's interested in the people she barks at. It's not like the occasional creepy people she barks at but backs away from. That's why I find it confusing.
When people stay despite her barking, she calms down after a couple minutes and then ignores them.

ralbucks
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Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by ralbucks » Fri May 06, 2016 12:27 am

Just an update. My puppy has been practicing his manners outside and it is getting better. He is ignored when barking outside so now we actually had two people pass by saying "what a well-behaved puppy". And let's me take his bone.We still have a long way to go with jumping, however. He also is no longer scared of balloons, ignores them, not even curious.

k9lexi
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Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by k9lexi » Fri May 06, 2016 1:15 am

Yippee! Go to hear the progress!

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brindledog
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Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:04 am
Tell us about yourself: I love Shepherds- German, Dutch and Belgian. I recently lost my 16.5 y/o GSD mix and was hoping to find a GSD or DS mix. I totally lucked out in finding Grendel, a DS/GSD mix at 9.5 weeks old. She was filthy and flea-ridden, but still the cutest, craziest thing ever. She's going to live up to her name! First dog I've had that I've actually seen the parents and definitely know what she is!

Re: Big discrepancy between behavior in home and outside

Post by brindledog » Fri May 06, 2016 1:16 am

I'm jealous!

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