Rawhide

[Asha]

How much rawhide is too much rawhide? Asha weighs about 40 pounds and can down a pretty good sized rawhide bone in a couple of hours. Is this bad?

[Dutchringgirl]

For me, any rawhide is too much. I only give my girls antlers. I know they cant ingest them. I get mine from Elkusa.com but I think some others have different places to get them.

[Raven]

Ditto what Lisa said on rawhide. The stuff should be outlawed.

[Stacy_R]

I triple what Lisa said. Rawhide is evil. I know someone who had to pull a rawhide roll out of her Doberman's esophagus.

[Raven]

I know someone who had to pull a rawhide roll out of her Doberman's esophagus.

When I was very young, I had to reach back in a dog's throat for rawhide, and feared I was pushing it down further. He was fighting it, I was trying not to panic. It was awful. My dogs never get rawhide.

[Stacy_R]

Holy cow...I bet. This lady said that her dog had chewed it (he isn't a gulper) and then she saw he was in distress. When she pulled it out, it was completely conformed to the shape of his esophagus and just kept coming....

Emily...go to doggyloot. They have all sorts of healthier chews (ligaments, bully sticks, antlers, etc) and they have some good deals. Try Himalayan Dog Chews, but just be sure to get the right size so Miss Asha won't try to swallow it.

[Asha]

OMG I didn't realize It was that bad! Why are they the only thing for sale in sooo many dog food sections? Ok a couple other questions guys. What are bully sticks made of and how long do they last? Pig ears and hooves, good choice or bad? And we have a local butcher who said he'd give us free bones. Should I get some? Pig? Beef? Thanks All

[Raven]

Others will have more to offer, but my understanding is that bully sticks (they go by other names, too) are bull penises. True story--IDK.

I used to give one of my dog years ago pig ears. I stopped, but for the life of me can't remember why. I know there are alternative pig ears on the market (with ingredients I haven't researched). Stephanie and Stacy are the better ones on this topic.

I stopped giving Thor raw beef bones when a member on this forum said (and I'm only paraphrasing!) that domestic dogs aren't geared for "taking down" cattle. Thor had a lower chipped canine and the beef bone chipped a bit more off, which is what prompted the member's comment.

Lisa and a few others faithfully use elk antlers.

Difference between beef bone and the hardness of elk antlers??????? Following the logic of the comment regarding domestic dogs "taking down" cattle, domestic dogs wouldn't seem likely to take down an elk and gnaw on its antlers. That said, I'd buy elk antlers since so many people I trust use them if it weren't for Thor's tooth. Beware: they are pricy but do last. (For instance: about a 2"x4" piece at Country Max sells for around $20.00. But they last.)

[Raven]

They sell rawhide (like so many other harmful or useless products) because they're cheap and manufacturer's generally don't care about health. Also, many pet owners wouldn't buy a lot of product if priced higher either because they couldn't afford to or simply wouldn't pay the price for a better alternative.

And as long as we're on the topic, don't buy anything (including non-edibles) from dollar stores. They are notorious for adding harmful ingredients (overseas) to products as extenders. The addition of melamine was a fairly recent example.

[Stacy_R]

I just had a whole response typed out and hit submit and it is gone... <sigh> Let's see if I can do this again with only 1 cup of coffee...

Before I even start:
1) Whatever you buy, make 100% sure that it is made in the US. Some companies have USA addresses on the label but the product is actually made in China. Look on the package and make sure you see "MADE IN THE USA." There have been major issues with dog treats made in China.

2) Whatever you give, make sure that it is too big to be swallowed whole. Dogs eat differently that people do. We chew our food into small pieces and then swallow. Dogs chew their food into pieces that are just small enough to swallow. That is why some dogs are gulpers. Kibble is small enough to hoover up without chewing at all.

Bully sticks: You will see "pizzle" in the ingredient list... Yes, pizzle = penis. They come in different protein sources, typically beef and buffalo. They also come in a variety of sizes and shapes. I usually give Tyson the braided ones because he is a power chewer. They can be smelly, so look for ones that say "low odor" or "grassfed." As far as how long they last...it just depends on your dog and what kind of a chewer she is. I was giving Tyson the braided ones at 4 months old. If Asha is 40 lbs, I would give her a large single and see how she does.

Hooves: I am a "no" on hooves. They can be really hard on the teeth and they can splinter/shatter with sharp edges. Also...they smell AWFUL...like manure...seriously...

Roasted bones (that you see at grocery stores and big box pet stores): Stay away. They are cooked and won't be digestible. They are really hard on teeth, will splinter, and are usually treated with something.

Pig ears: These are *ok.* They can be high in fat content and can cause diarrhea/pancreatitis if your dog is sensitive or if fed too often. I do give these on occasion, but very infrequently. Look for PLAIN cow ears...they are better. I think the alternative Sharon was referring to is called "Better Than Pig Ears." I did see them in a store and didn't think they would offer up much of a chewing challenge. I really haven't researched these at all because I try to stay all-natural as much as possible.

Antlers: I am a full-fledged believer. We have deer, elk, and moose antlers lying about the house. Tyson prefers moose. I think he likes these best because they are flat and he can "get his chew on" a little better.

Raw bones: Yes. Outside of feeding bones in my dogs' raw diet, I like to give split soup bones. All 3 of my dogs love these and they offer a good workout. I actually have a picture of my 6lb min-pin going after one...it was almost as big as he is!!! You can also try pork spare ribs. Pork is softer than beef and spare ribs are longer than back ribs.

1-snickersandhissoupbone.jpg (93.06 KiB) Viewed 6762 times

I also like Himalayan Dog Chews. They can be a bit pricey, so I look for them on doggyloot. If you try these, I would give her a large to start with. Be sure to read the directions because they will instruct you on what to do when the chew gets too small.

I have yet to try Zukes Z-bones, but I have heard they are pretty good. They are made with potato starch instead of wheat or corn.

You can also find fish skin rolls that are just rolled or that are rolled in the shape of knotted bones. They just don't last very long.

My main rule of thumb when feeding anything (food/treats/bones) is "know thy dog." I can give Tyson things to chew on that I can't give Baby Ruth and vice-versa. If I give Baby Ruth a braided bully stick instead of a single, she will just look at me like "Okay mom, what am I supposed to do with this?" If I give Tyson a medium single, it's gone in less than a minute.

Here are my indoor preferences: antlers, Himalayan Dog Chews, stuffed (and frozen) Kongs, low-odor bully sticks.

I hope I made sense.

[Asha]

Thank you guys all so much for the in depth answers, especially Stacy, as always you go above and beyond. I think I'll try some bully sticks to start, they're not crazy expensive from what I've seen. I have one more rather strange question. Our neighbors raise pigs, so they're in really good with the local butchers. A lot of people don't keep the heads, feet, etc. Would you ever give your dog a whole raw pig's foot? Or a raw, untreated pig's ear?
Also, we have a whole, skinned, pig's head in our freezer that my husband had intended on making head cheese with, I doubt this is ever going to happen. Would it be ok to boil the head and give the dogs some of the cooked meat from it and the skull to chew on? Sorry if this is extremely gross and gagging some members (as it is causing me to do as I type!)

[Dutchringgirl]

Yes, I am gagging but it is a great question ! I had found all of my raw feeding answers from a yahoo group. I cant remember what the name of it was but they had some great info on there as to what is good and not good to feed your pups.

[johninny]

i have been a 13-year user of raw marrow bones [ non-flaring segments to prevent shattering ] with ALL the fat, etc, trimmed off to prevent pancreatitis. i used to provide one pretty much every day, but have cut way back due to tooth problems recounted here by others. they are much harder than antlers. so still use the marrow bones [ the marrow is so good for them and fun for them to dig out ] but cut way back to lower odds of tooth chip/crack, though i have never had a problem. i have put much effort into getting fresh bones - and then butcher cuts them EXACTLY how i want them [ i have trained him] - and the the trimming to remove all gunk is occasionally tiresome. thanks to folks here, antlers are the main chew-joy around here now and i use Lisa's suggestion of elkusa.com my dogs like the stubby antlers the most as opposed the slender curve to a point. [ elkusa presents many confusing choices for the first time user so i created a tasting menu for the dogs to let them choose.]

echoing Stacy on buying usa [ or canada ], many [ most ] rawhide products are made overseas and shocking amount from china where dangerous chemicals are often used. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU FEED YOUR DOG -including no ingredient in something - SHOULD COME FROM CHINA. that is exceedingly difficult to know with kibble but testing for chemical by-products has given a clean bill of health to some manufacturers.

i disagree that pig ears are ok. there are some products where even the very best companies with the best practices and best sourcing have huge difficulty in keeping these products SAFE. among these are pig ears and, less so, jerky. [ now i do not know enough about pig ears to say that getting one from a local farmer or butcher where you are in the healthy countryside is bad; but those commercially available for dogs are loaded with dangerous bacteria that you should not want around your dog or your house.] the cooked bones that sit unrefrigerated on store shelves i view as a potential death sentence for a dog.

in the vein of bully sticks, one can occasionally find twisted tripe sticks which are a bit of a challenge, quite healthy, but STINKY. dogs think they have gone to heaven.

tripe sticks being an exception, but i generally won't give anything to my dogs that i would not be willing to put in my own mouth. that alone rules out pig ears, old rotting bones wrapped in plastic that dogfood stores sell, and anything from China. [ as an aside, the heavy metal and chemical saturation of china-produced foods is truly alarming; even more alarming is how much of our own human food supply is now compromised. i do not buy much commercial food, but in the winter months have to be careful when buying garlic as 85% of garlic sold in usa now is grown in china.]

adding this as you have added a post since i started writing: wouldn't the pig skull, at least if cooked, be a bit dangerous? Stacy and others might be able to answer; i cannot answer but would want an answer before proceeding on the skull bone front [ would seem too thin to me but might be ok uncooked -- though the fact that it has been frozen may present its own problems for raw eating vis-a-vis splintering, etc.]

[Stacy_R]

Would you ever give your dog a whole raw pig's foot?

Yes. All 3 of my dogs are in hog-heaven (yes, folks, I'm here all day... ) when I give them one. Just be aware that they are exceptionally fatty and can cause dire-rear. I wouldn't give them on a regular basis.

Chicken feet and duck feet are good snacks and are good for the glucosamine/chondroitin that is in them. It's actually pretty funny to watch some dogs eat them...Snickers especially. He's a shredder so he tries to pull the tendons/ligaments out and inevitably ends up getting attacked by his food (when you pull on a tendon/ligament, it makes a toe move...LOL. It's pretty comical).

Or a raw, untreated pig's ear?

I never have, but now that you mention it...I might give it a go. Not something I would give on a regular basis due to fat content (mostly skin), but I imagine they would make a great snack. I am going to order some just to try.

Also, we have a whole, skinned, pig's head in our freezer that my husband had intended on making head cheese with, I doubt this is ever going to happen. Would it be ok to boil the head and give the dogs some of the cooked meat from it and the skull to chew on? Sorry if this is extremely gross and gagging some members (as it is causing me to do as I type!)

Why bother cooking it? Thaw it and just toss it out in the backyard and let her at it. She'll pull the meat off on her own and it will be great mental exercise for her offering an extensive workout!! You can even let her at it frozen for 15 minutes or so, take it up, toss it in the fridge, and give it again the next day. Never give a dog a cooked bone. Cooking it changes its digestibilty. Feeding previously frozen bones is fine. I buy in bulk, so I have to freeze. Sidenote: if the head has a lot of meat and you let her go to town for 15-20 minutes, I would do it around her dinner or breakfast time and then let that be her meal. The reason is because if she eats a lot of the meat and then you feed her normally, it would be akin to overfeeding which might result in dire-rear...but that is just my I try to avoid dire-rear AT ALL COST ~ LOL.

Another thing...I know that I have made mention of "too much fat" in some of my explanations. Don't be afraid of skin and fat...some fat is good. You just don't want to over-do. In other words, if you do pig feet/ears, don't make those your staple.

I also like to give meaty lamb shanks for a meal.

i disagree that pig ears are ok...those commercially available for dogs are loaded with dangerous bacteria

This just really depends on the source and if they are plain or glazed. But to each their own. And again, the cow ears have a lower fat content, as do lamb ears. Just make sure, whatever protein source you are buying, is PLAIN, not glazed or flavored and look at all ingredients. As far as bacteria goes, dogs' systems can handle way more bacteria than we can. Dogs eat all sorts of nasty stuff: road-kill, other dogs' poop as well as goose/deer/rabbit/bird, etc poop (in fact, isn't there someone on this forum who has that issue with one of their dogs?? mine seem to seek out rabbit droppings), raw meat, etc. When dog foods are recalled because of salmonella it isn't for the benefit of the dogs, it's for the benefit of the humans.

I hope this helps

[Asha]

Thaw it and just toss it out in the backyard and let her at it.

That's what I told my husband we should do! I think I'll try it tomorrow. Maybe I'll get some good New Years pics! Thanks again guys. I was giving them rawhides from the market (probably Chinese poison) and buying the nice soup bones from the grocery store. The last time I talked to the butcher he said he had free bones, heads and feet so I think I'll get my hands on those and some bully sticks. That should occupy them for a bit.

[Stacy_R]

Pictures would be awesome!!!

[MaliNut]

I used to feed USA made Rawhide Retriever Rolls made by Wholesome Hide. I am a retired Pharmaceutical Scientist and I researched this company ad infinitum.


If you must use Rawhide...Check out Wholesome Hide.....They are US sourced and made and rolled thick(none of the compressed garbage). The best, IMO is the 10" Wholesome Hide Super Thick Rawhide Retriever Roll.
They weigh about 13ounces each and are sold by a few distributors for ~6.50 to 8.50 each; depending on which vendor you select off of Wholesome hides site.

My Mal had iron jaws and could destroy even the Carbon Kongs and a 10" super thick roll would last two days w/out fraying or going to pieces....Here is the "marketing spill"

The Wholesome Hide Super Thick Rawhide Retriever Roll is an extra thick premium rawhide roll that is made from 100% US beef hide. These Rawhide Retriever Rolls are designer to be better tasting, longer lasting and more flavorful than traditional rawhide. 10 inches long.

I don't condone their use but if you must use Rawhide...buy top quality US made.

I have a problem now that my 8 mo is teething and can't get any front teeth action and is becoming the "De-seamstress". She likes to work the edges of any rug; pillow or what have you and I would prefer her to work on a known quality Rawhide roll that ingest the stuffing out of a pillow.

No toy exists, that I know of, that works the front teeth between the canines that can withstand her attacks for more than 5 minutes. I buy gappay tugs and she can unseam those in 10 minutes.

So it is a lesser of two evils and my Mal ate them for two years until they broke the budget and and he transitioned over to the Carbon Kongs which would last a month tops.

Regards...Greg

[Mobil]

I stopped getting rawhide when I learned that they can cause obstruction or choking because they swell when they get wet. I bought buffalo ears a couple times, but they gas they had after eating them was enough to condemn the house, so I'm not getting those any more. I just ordered some antlers. Whole, because I've heard the split ones are not good for their teeth and don't last as long.