Spitting Up / Wretching

[Raven]

My last DS did this, too....(but no other dog)....

Thor spits up. He'll be going along or even standing still, everything fine, and then he spews effortlessly. Sometimes you can tell that it doesn't come up all the way, but it's there.

Then there's occasions where it's not spit up...he lets you know beyond doubt that he needs to get sick and get let out. Sometimes he actually wretches--horrible to watch. Sometimes he doesn't even vomit, but rather, looks for particular grass patches. Michala ravenously pulled at particular patches while Thor nibbles at particular patches.

I tried pots of grass in the house, but it held no interest for either.

It is not centered around eating times. It can happen with or without food or treats being involved.

I talked to the vet about this with both Michala and Thor. Not much offered except a new environment and expectations and stress of a new home.

Thor tends to inhale his food (grain-free Canidae): I feed him dinner, fed by palmfuls for which he needs to work for each taste. His father feeds him breakfast all at once in a bowl that is elevated, as is his water.

He is not allowed activity for one hour after eating breakfast and dinner.

With both dogs, it lessened after they settled in, but was/is always there popping up here and there. It's not a daily thing though can happen a few to several times a week. (The wretchng occurs perhaps once a month on average.)

I think I've given any information someone would ask...Anyone had this happen with their dogs?

[Dutchringgirl]

I cant say that ive had a frequent reoccurred of vomit. When they do I can usually find the reason before they re-eat it, A few weeks ago thalie made a nice mess after munching alot of deer poop on our bike ride. Usually when Thalie vomits there is that long sequence of that funny sound and the stomach contracting, then I have time to get her somewhere safe and easy to clean up, outside hopefully.

Sadie only does this funny thing when she ate kibble, I even had toys or balls in her bowls to slow her. She would look like she was ready to vomit, walk around for a minute then fine. She never does this when she eats raw.

Can you keep notes to try to link it to something, food, or is she finding things that she shouldnt eat?

[Sugars Mom]

Sugar does this too, same kind of frequency and description. The vet said the regurgetaion is different from the vomiting, and that could indicate a problem with the esophogus and suggested raising the dishes, etc as you've mentioned (which seems to have helped).

The throwing up usually is when she eats grass which is mostly in the spring and summer and she hasn't thrown up in a while (...hmmm its winter and less grass eating??).

I don't have any answers for you, but have the same symptoms.

She also used to inhale her food and then I started feeding by putting her meals in a treat ball where she has to roll it around and a kibble or two will fall out at a time. I did that for a while (month or two) and now I feed her in a bowl and she eats normal speed.

[alspyce]

Not a fan of commercial dog foods at all!! Even the "five star" foods have ingredients that I don't want in my dogs diet. Dog food companies first interest is SALES----Not your dogs health. LOTS of creative advertising going on in that business. I had the (not sick) vomits here too, long ago, but switched to raw and it stopped.
http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359
http://www.examiner.com/american-pit-bu ... dog-s-food
http://vonhapsburg.homestead.com/petfood.html
I would encourage you to try raw feeding.

[Raven]

I would love to feed raw and have been reading about it for a while now. I didn't do it as I leary if my knowledge wasn't detailed enough. (Now it's a matter of finances as I resigned my position.) HOWEVER, many thanks for the links. In fact, I just read this morning another piece on green tripe: suppliers, canned vs. fresh/frozen.

What are thoughts on serving kibble in a.m. and then raw chicken for dinner until the time comes to make a break for totally raw? I'd read that you should wait 12 hours between a kibble meal and a raw meal (which he gets feed the two meals 12 hours apart anyway) as the body digests those foods differently and at different rates.

He gets a tablespoon of salmon oil per day. I don't use other supplements for E or complete omega 3-6-9. (Yeah...I have a lot more to learn to get to get up to speed with the raw route.)

[alspyce]

If you've been feeding Canidae, raw shouldn't cost any more. Some folk do use kibble and raw, but I personally don't think you gain the benefits of raw by doing it that way. Honest Kitchen has an affordable dehydrated food lots of folks use as a base and add meat, eggs, etc. Raw really doesn't have to be complicated, nor is it as expensive as you would think. I buy from the local markets, whatever is on sale, and if there are no good sales, I have a butcher who sells 10# bags of chicken @ $1.69 per lb. all the time.
I have a "dog freezer", so I go nuts and clean out the store if something is a real good buy.

[Schlussdibusti]

May be ordering with a raw food group in your area (there are many on Yahoo groups) will get you raw stuff for less or like a friend of mine, buy wholesale from food suppliers like Sherwood. She rescues Bull Mastifs, has about 10 or 11 and they eat A LOT. I piggy bag when she orders.

I had the food elevated too, then read it is not good for them and put the food bowsl back on the ground. If I find the link to the article, I will post it later.

[alspyce]

I had the food elevated too, then read it is not good for them and put the food bowsl back on the ground. If I find the link to the article, I will post it later.

If I remember correctly, the thought is that elevated bowls can increase the chance of Bloat in large, deep chested breeds. Hope you find the link, would like to read it.

[Raven]

Now I have a question about bones.

He's a gulper, as stated. I've read that in regard to bones, that shouldn't matter. (I read about partially crushing the bones, but that seems almost dangerous to me if the dog is a gulper and therefore doesn't "know" that a sharp fragment just went in their mouth. I also read that gulpers or not: bones, period, don't cause a problem.) I'm probably over-thinking this....

He also came to me with a slightly chipped lower canine, which was chipped more when I used to give him beef marrow bones (I stopped). But it would seem that further chipping to the tooth wouldn't come from eating raw with bones--difference between gnawing on a big ol' bone and eating smaller, raw chicken bones.

So, no one here supplements with much of anything on raw?

[Dutchringgirl]

Sadie hasnt done any of her weird after eating thing since she has been on raw, they eat a lot slower too and I think that helps with gulpers .

Dont worry about bones, it took me a while to get my head around them eating bones, the first time I fed them meat with a bone in it I thought I was going to have a heart attack! I watched them and they chomped it right up and no one died. Now I just give them meat with bone and dont even think about it.

I dont feed them any supplements, from what I have read they get all they need from the meat. Their coats are soft and shiny too !

[alspyce]

Now I have a question about bones.

He's a gulper, as stated. I've read that in regard to bones, that shouldn't matter. (I read about partially crushing the bones, but that seems almost dangerous to me if the dog is a gulper and therefore doesn't "know" that a sharp fragment just went in their mouth. I also read that gulpers or not: bones, period, don't cause a problem.) I'm probably over-thinking this....

He also came to me with a slightly chipped lower canine, which was chipped more when I used to give him beef marrow bones (I stopped). But it would seem that further chipping to the tooth wouldn't come from eating raw with bones--difference between gnawing on a big ol' bone and eating smaller, raw chicken bones.

So, no one here supplements with much of anything on raw?

You would feed a large piece that has to be "worked on" to slow them down a bit: 1/2 a chicken works pretty well until they figure it out. Always watch them while they eat, but yeah, they will crunch,crunch, swallow---dogs don't "Chew" like we do.
I do use a liquid vitamin supplement 2 or 3 times a week--just because it makes me feel better. Also Salmon or Krill oil, and always Diatomaceous Earth as it has lots of trace minerals as well as keeping them free of worms.

[Schlussdibusti]

Since my Labs didn't like Nylabones and such, I bought them beef marrow bones and they had one almost each day while I were gone working. BUT, it grounded down their teeth tremendously. A vet told me that dog teeth are not made for cow bones. If they would have to fend for themselves in the wild, they probably would eat, rabbits, birds, may be a sheep or goat, but nothing as big as a cow. Made sense to me, so Marco doesn't get the beef marrow bones.

Another alternative to completely raw is the Volhard Diet. It's a different mix in the morning and evening. Morning mix with veggies and yoghurt, evening with raw meat. I feed it to my Labs and they loved it. Wendy Volhard had 11 year Newfoundland winning agility competitions. http://www.volharddognutrition.com/the- ... inued.html She must do something right nutritions wise. For me the proof is in the pudding.

[Schlussdibusti]

I think this is the link: http://www.vetinfo.com/elevated-dog-feeder.html I remember finding the citric acid issue also interesting.

Raising the food to improve posture IMHO is absolute nonsense. How long do they eat, 30 sec to a minute? In the wild there are no elevated food bowls either. And my senior Lab, if he feels to uncomfortable to stand while eating, he is laying down and eats. I think this "raised food bowl" thing is another scam of the pet industry to sell us more stuff.

[Lauren]

I have been feeding Xena raw since day one. I read, stressed, dreamed about it, joined groups, ordered books ... finally I just had to realize that no one has THE absolute answer as to what exactly you must add.

So, I let the worries go and followed the ideas that made sense to me. I have fed her raw since she was 8 weeks old, so she started off having to chew the bones. I wold start with a chicken back (frozen if needed). You can even hold it in you hand and encourage him to gnaw on the other end.

It is awe inspiring to see a dog consume and entire chicken leg quarter ($.60/lb) ripping and tearing and chewing. It is terrifying, and yet it feels right. I also get pet grade ground meat (Beef, goat, venison) from a butcher for 1.00 lb. To that I add any supplements that I give. I give 3 capsules of salmon oil, one of vitamin e (daily), egg yolks, (tiny bit of leftover veggies and fruits: carrot ends, spinach, celery, blueberries, over ripe bananas etc put through the grinder) To this I also add the organs :liver, tripe, kidney, brains whatever I can get my hands on. The ratio is 5 lbs meat to 1 lb organs to 4 egg yolks and a few handfuls of veggies/fruit made into patties. So every day my dogs get a hunk of chicken with bone in the am and a patty in the pm. Once a week I am supposed to give a fish meal but i don't always remember.

I did try a bag of orijen 0% grain food $$$$$. They crapped so much (volume, not sick) in 24 hours I couldn't bear it. And it smelled. The cats (also tried orijen fish) pooped more in 48 hours tan they usually do in 2 weeks. seriously. And their urine started to smell like, well, cat pee in less than 24 hours. Needless to say we are back to raw and I have a lifetime of Orijen that I use for training treats.

[Raven]

Thanks, everyone! Not as intimidating as some make it sound, I guess--like I wouldn't put him in kidney or liver failure or his gums wouldn't turn green and teeth fall out (whatever....).

[CaroleBoaz]

If they would have to fend for themselves in the wild, they probably would eat, rabbits, birds, may be a sheep or goat, but nothing as big as a cow. Made sense to me, so Marco doesn't get the beef marrow bones.

There's a woman in my area that sells sheep rib bones (among other things). I was really surprised to see how fast my dogs worked through one of those. I'm talking under an hour.

When I first read about the problem, I thought of megaesophagus, or maybe just a mild case of it? In that case raising food bowls. People make special feeding chairs to help these dogs survive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sidA3-7XezU

[kchristy]

wow, that chair is pretty cool

[Sugars Mom]

Did you jinx me...the day following your post, Sugar threw up some of her meal. Something she hadn't done in a while. Then today when we got home from her play at the park, she drank her water then up it all came

She has been scratching again and I am seriously considering changing to raw. But it just seems so gross