Shots... what is normal

[karenz]

Xander does drink nasty water in our yard if it collects in something but he is not allowed to drink out of other dogs water bowls, except my dad's dog who gets all the shots with no problems. He doesn't drink nasty water away from home on walks or whatever. I will read some more about lepto and see if the pros out way the cons.

[Mobil]

Delco got Trifexis, and so do the pups. No issues. I prefer oral treatment over topical because of the kids and because the pups can't keep their mouths off each other.

[Raven]

Some DS owners have reported ill-effects from Triflexis. Stephanie and Stacy would know more, I'm sure.

Karen, will you take him back to the vet's just for a casual visit (no office visit) so he's less likely to associate the "trauma" he experienced with trips to the vet? (You know Xander...if he's likely to just blow off the whole sordid incident and move along.)

[johninny]

i would ask your vet if there is a prevalence of lepto developing in wildlife in your area and whether local vets have in recent years or just this year seen lepto showing up in dogs. it is spread by urine, so if critters who have it pass through your yard or anywhere you take Xander, he can pick it up [ and, in addition to eating grass, dogs do tend to sniff and sample traces of urine to ''read'' what is going on around them]. it is a very dangerous bacterium; easy to treat, but not easy to identify so animals and humans can die or slip into comas before a proper diagnosis is made. it presents itself in any number of odd ways: for example there was the recent case of a california [?] boy who had been in a coma for a LONG time and doctors country-wide could not find the cause. finally, samples from his brain fluid were DNA-sequenced at an experimental research facility [in MD?] and they found lepto which had failed direct detection by hundreds of tests that no normal person would even be able to get, i.e., there had been no sparing of technology, money, or expertise in this case. the type of dna sequencing that finally found it is mind-bogglingly experimental and inaccessible at the moment. once the cause was found, simple 1930's style penicillin brought a quick recovery to the boy. thus EASY treatment, but lucky if you get to that point in time.

after very thorough investigation into the theory, structure, making, mechanism, and effectiveness [ about 90% which is very good ], i think lyme vaccine is amazing and is a logical, no-risk addition to other precautions [ like frontline or home-made sprays ] for dogs in areas that are at risk, which i think is at least the eastern third of the country. lyme disease keeps getting more and more complex and sometimes difficult to diagnose; aside from its dramatically increasing prevalence, lyme as it mutates into various new forms is becoming a much more serious disease in many cases than it used to be, so it deserves much more respect than it did some years ago, tho even then it could be devastating. [ granted most people would recover smartly, but less true now.] on that score, a tick bite on the head, at base of ears, etc. that transmits lyme will probably not be curable [ because of the blood-brain barrier ] and results often in debilitating degeneration in the many confusing and assorted ways that lyme presents itself. us humans should wear hats or hoods when at risk; and this is why i look at lyme vaccine as ESSENTIAL for my dogs. if one gets a bite in the wrong place, he could be incurable and lose coordination, balance, or even decent mobility and clear thought forever.

with spacing between vaccines, NONE of my dogs have experienced reactions to any vaccines [ and with no pre-treatment].

climate change is causing change in patterns and severity of diseases very rapidly now. we have to re-think disease risks from what we knew just a few years ago, as what i suppose were actually slow cumulative changes are recently showing up as massive changes from long-held assumptions AND experiences.

edit, i wrote this post after Karen's 2ND-to-last post and while writing a number of other posts have appeared that i will now proceed to read....but posting this without reading them first.

[LyonsFamily]

Dogs still get Lepto on the bacterin/vaccine as well. It's not a preventable vaccine, but rather one that minimizes the severity of the disease if a dog were to get it. That also can mean that your dog could have it, be contagious, and you would write it off as just feeling a little under the weather while unknowingly spreading it to other dogs and humans. Lepto is also very easy to kill as it can't live in the environment once dried and most common household cleaners, including laundry soap, kill it. The main problem is outside in the damp soil where raccoons and rodents frequent.

I take my dogs to trials and training pretty regularly and I do have training and grooming at my home, but I try to avoid the popular potty areas and try to crate my dogs in the car as much as possible. I talked to our small animal vet about Rats and the dangers of Lepto and we agreed that I should probably avoid barn hunt if I choose not to vaccinate as there currently isn't a Lepto vaccine for rats and that environment is very high risk.

I don't know much about corona. I haven't seen that suggested since I was a kid as it was a required shot for 4-H and they used the old 7-way vaccines.

As for Trifexis, I don't have personal experience there. I know there is a ton of research and cases of reactions, but problems always get reported more than success. I've never really lived in a high flea populated area, so I don't use those preventatives. I don't do regular heartworm preventatives at this time, and if I did, I'd do them only in the fall months, so a year round tablet would be overkill IMO.

I know there's also nexguard which is an oral for fleas and ticks only that is shown to be statistically safer and might be something worth looking into, especially if you want tick prevention as well and don't want to do a topical. You would have to get a separate heartworm tablet or get the proheart shot if you want that protection though. I would also ask your vet about recommended doses as I've seen doses given every 6 weeks to be proven just as effective as every 4.

[Stacy_R]

Regarding Trifexis: Personally, I don't like the all-in-ones because I don't need them. And I'm personally opposed to administering any meds of any sort to my dogs unless they really need them (just like for myself).

I only use a topical flea/tick medication if I know I'm going to be somewhere where there is an issue. I give ACV and garlic to my dogs and we've never had a flea issue...ever...even when camping. As far as heartworms go, I have been pretty regular this summer with HW preventative because the mosquitoes have been horrible (very rainy summer), but I tend to slack off fall-winter and until the mosquitoes reappear.

Because of all of this, I have zero actual experience with Trifexis, just what I've read. I've read both horror stories and success stories. But I've read both horror and success stories with the topicals, too.

[karenz]

Raven: we have been going to the vet 4 or 5 or 6 times a month since he was a puppy for fun visits. The pet him, the vets come in and pet him, give him treats, and he gives kisses. We go in the exam room get on the table, give treats, the vets rub on him, give treats and he is perfectly fine. He just is too smart and knows when they are getting ready to do something unpleasant and he flips. But we even went back today and the vet came in talked to us about all my questions and gave him treats and he was perfectly fine.

Johninny: He said lepto is common in this area. He says he sees cases frequently, mostly in swine and farm animals but dogs as well and more so than he would like. Also since it can effect humans he is concerned with it. He said he had to tell a lady last week that since her dog had it she needed to get checked if she got flu like symptoms. He also said it is a bacteria, not a virus so is more likely to have caused Xanders drippy nose etc... As for Lyme disease Xander gets some drops that begin with an r. Sorry will have to go back and look for the name. Xander is rarely in high tick areas so I feel pretty comfortable with that. I check him daily for ticks anyway because I hate them worse than spiders.lol

LyonsFamily: I am ok with trifexis. We personally don't have a fleas problem at our house but there is a problem in our area. Many friends of mine have had serious flea problems. Also as for the lepto I have had a couple possums in the yard and several stray cats. We don't have rats but we do have moles. I'm leaning towards doing the lepto but with premedication (benadryl).

Also corona is not as big a problem as lepto in our area but my vet said there is a recent study that says corona causes parvo to be a bigger problem. He is going to make me a copy of the study so I can read it.

He is also willing to titer test but recommends doing it yearly. He said it is rare but the numbers can get to low quicker than 3 years. He also said cheap titer are around $100 or so but he would recommend having them done at the University of Missouri (I think he said Missouri) because they are the "gold standard" in titer and he trusts them the most but it is more expensive.

He also said he would be glad to do his shots separately. I was surprised he was ok with that considering Xander is psycho getting shots.

He said only 2 places do rabies titers. One I think is a military something and the other was the university of Kansas or Arkansas, I can't remember, I think kansas.

He seemed very knowledgeable and even explained how each vaccine worked, the benefits of them, the risks of them. He said he is not 100% confident in the 3 year combo but he would give it if I wanted it. He also said he would do all separate shots rather than the combo. He recommended spreading them out by a week or two. He said they do that alot with smaller breads.

So at least he is open and I feel like I can trust his ability. It will be something I can research and think about over the next year.

[LyonsFamily]

He is also willing to titer test but recommends doing it yearly. He said it is rare but the numbers can get to low quicker than 3 years. He also said cheap titer are around $100 or so but he would recommend having them done at the University of Missouri (I think he said Missouri) because they are the "gold standard" in titer and he trusts them the most but it is more expensive.

I'm assuming that's probably Michigan State rather than Missouri. I could be wrong, but they are considered the top for a thyroid panel and most other send out tests. The main vet hospitals that do titers are Cornell, Colorado State, Michigan State, Tufts, and Texas A&M. We use Idexx do to send out titers at the clinic, but I don't think any of our current doctors really advocate for it. I also don't get a discount on send out Idexx stuff, so I never looked into the price.

I always thought that Hemopet/Hemolife was the go-to for titers. Her thyroid tests are on par with Michigan State's as well. They do rabies, parvo, and distemper. I haven't nor will I ever do a rabies titer though. There's too much idiocy at animal control and I cannot risk a bite with anything other than a licensed vet giving the shot according to state laws, especially with Elli in protection sports. There is a new in house titer test for both Parvo and Distemper called Vaccicheck, but I have yet to see a local vet that has those and the results are only something like 95% reliable.

My Parvo/Distemper titers will be done through VIP pet clinics. It's a travelling clinic mainly in the midwest. They do both for $65 without an exam fee. I believe they send out to Antech.

[karenz]

They do rabies, parvo, and distemper. I haven't nor will I ever do a rabies titer though. There's too much idiocy at animal control and I cannot risk a bite with anything other than a licensed vet giving the shot according to state laws, especially with Elli in protection sports.

I agree with the rabies vaccine. My vet said titers and exemptions are not good enough for local laws. He said titers just means that if a person was bit a person would get "not as extreme treatment but would still be treated. And i learned as a vet they have to get rabies vaccines and titers. He said you have to have it even to go to vet school.

[LyonsFamily]

Aside from biting another dog or human and having to sit 10 days quarantine for being unvaccinate, there's an unknown state law here (I read it in our MI-OSHA book) that if an unvaccinated dog is bit by an animal with an unknown rabies vaccination status and we can't catch the offender for testing, the one that got bit is supposed to spend 6 months at a vet or animal control in quarantine. That right there would end Odin's life.

[karenz]

If your pet is not currently vaccinated and is bitten by an animal that is or might be rabid, animal control is required by law to either quarantine the pet for six months or euthanize it (NCGS 130A-197 External link). That choice must be made by the local health director.

Notice it says the choice is made by the local health inspector. Around here, they will probably be euthanized.

There is alot to the rabies laws and they throw these things in. Also local laws can be more strick than state laws, but not less strick, so always checks your city and county ordinances. You mat find that they have more strick laws. I only know this from personal experience as a law enforcement officer. People are usually completely unaware of local ordinances, they think that if they follow state laws they are safe.

For example here are some of our local ordinances:

[Stacy_R]

I don't mess around with rabies titers because of the state and local laws...they all get the 3 year rabies vaccine. It's the combo that we do titers tests for (with Tyson...my other 2 get rabies only since they are older and basically at-home dogs). I just always give the Thuja (detox) after the rabies vaccine.

Karen - what it really boils down to is what you are comfortable with for your dog. Do your research and be comfortable with the decision that you make. And don't be afraid to revisit said research every now and again...science uncovers things all the time. You ultimately have to do what you feel is best for your dog and the lifestyle/environment that he has/lives in.

[karenz]

Karen - what it really boils down to is what you are comfortable with for your dog. Do your research and be comfortable with the decision that you make. And don't be afraid to revisit said research every now and again...science uncovers things all the time. You ultimately have to do what you feel is best for your dog and the lifestyle/environment that he has/lives in.

Thanks StacyR. I agree 100%. I have a whole year to read and decide. I try to read anything new that I can find because things always change. Like my vet said, "it's just like with people, one day eggs are bad for you and the next day they aren't so you should always keep reading but don't be in a hurry to jump on the next health fad because tomorrow it may change." But on a good note Xander is feeling much better now.

[LyonsFamily]

If your pet is not currently vaccinated and is bitten by an animal that is or might be rabid,

and that "might be" is sooo vague. Luckily I live in the middle of nowhere and bought my house in probably the best county in the state as far as dog friendly laws. We have to buy a kennel license after 3 dogs, but it's only $10 and is cheaper than 1 individual license..