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Allergies/Rash?

montecarlogirl87
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Tell us about yourself: dogs, cats, fish, birds, horses, llamas... I've worked with them all :)
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by montecarlogirl87 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:06 am

the vet told my dad it's a non-contagious type

I wanna keep giving her coconut oil (or maybe fish oil?) to just help her system/skin from the inside out

their beds are going to be washed tomorrow for sure, and I've read quite a few reviews online of a watered down peroxide-borax solution that people rave about, so I think I'll try that as well
Tareena and Shylah and Shota - Orlando, FL

LyonsFamily
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by LyonsFamily » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:23 am

Mitaban dips are typically used for Demodex (the non-contagious) and Lime-Sulfur are used for scabies, although I have seen the Lyme Sulfur suggested for bad demodex cases. In either case, we've always lubed the eyes, and washed with Davis Benzoyl Peroxide shampoo first. Dips are no longer done in dip tanks, but rather mixed up in a gallon container and poured over the dog with the dog allowed to drip dry. You can also try the Benzoyl Peroxide shampoo on its own first.

You can buy Lime Sulfur OTC and do the rinse yourself, but it smells like rotten eggs and is a yellow liquid that can stain your carpeting and clothes and caging your dog until it can drip dry is a nightmare. Mitaban is harder to find OTC, but I think there is a livestock version that you could possibly find. Both are chemicals and is better left as a prescription. You can ask the vet for the correct dosage and bath at home though, just prepare your nose and get good gloves and a rubber apron.

Ivermectin also works for mange and sometimes the really bad cases need it. I personally think it's because there are internal parasites present that are affecting the immune system making it harder for the dog to fight off the mange and since ivermectin kills a whole spectrum of parasites, it can help make the pet healthy enough to fight off the mange itself.

As far as where she got it from, all dogs have the mites that cause demodectic mange on them. The problem comes in when the dog's body can't keep them in check. Often a poor immune system from diet or disease, or a large amount of stress can trigger an over abundance of these mites which leads to the balding, itchiness, etc. Getting the dog healthy and lowering the stress is going to be your biggest battle so they don't come back.
Stephanie
'Odin' NV PTA Odin of Another Kingdom RL1
'Elli' Drawing Our Own Constellations RL1 CGC CGCA

Stacy_R
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by Stacy_R » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:21 pm

LyonsFamily wrote:As far as where she got it from, all dogs have the mites that cause demodectic mange on them. The problem comes in when the dog's body can't keep them in check. Often a poor immune system from diet or disease, or a large amount of stress can trigger an over abundance of these mites which leads to the balding, itchiness, etc. Getting the dog healthy and lowering the stress is going to be your biggest battle so they don't come back.
Yes. Yes. And Yes.
~Stacy
Mom to:
Tyson - DS mix (Hendrix's Soul Sibling and Dinga Roo's long lost twin)
Baby Ruth - Miniature Schnauzer
Snickers - Miniature Pinscher
http://www.rescuedme.org

Mobil
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by Mobil » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:56 pm

I know this post is a few weeks old, but I wanted to put in my two cents on the food thing.

Purina One is rated 2 stars on dogfoodadvisor.com. It's really not a good food. I compared some prices for you on Tractor Supply's website, and you could be getting a 5-star rated food for the same price.

Purina One costs about a dollar a pound, and Blue costs about $1.75 per pound. I don't think mixing the quality food in with the crap makes up for how bad the Purina is, it's mostly corn.
And I really think you could end up with fewer skin and other health issues with better food.

Five star foods: cost/lb:
Diamond Naturals extreme athlete: 98c
4health performance formula: 1.00

Four star foods: cost/lb:
Diamond Naturals Adult Chicken and Rice: 75c
Diamond Naturals Adult beef meal and Rice: 80c

4Health Chicken and Rice Adult: 95c
4Health Salmon and Potato Adult: 1.00
Dusty,

Mobil & Turbo (4/14, probably DS)

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racingiron1
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by racingiron1 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:23 pm

Also keep in mind that you may be able to feed less quantity of the better foods because there's less of the useless (and often harmful) filler ingredients. So your cost/day may stay about equal even if cost/lb goes up.
Eric, Elizabeth, & Hilde

Raven
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by Raven » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:37 pm

What Eric said.

Thor's a big boy but only gets a cup in the morning and a cup at night (supplemented with daily treats of dog-safe raw veggies, and coconut oil and salmon oil).
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

Mobil
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Tell us about yourself: Rescued a dumped DS puppy from the freeway and found his littermate in a nearby shelter two weeks later.

Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by Mobil » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:44 pm

racingiron1 wrote:Also keep in mind that you may be able to feed less quantity of the better foods because there's less of the useless (and often harmful) filler ingredients. So your cost/day may stay about equal even if cost/lb goes up.
And also because the calories per cup are different, depending on the brand, so check those, too.

For instance, the Diamond Extreme Athlete is 470 calories per cup. The Purina is 360 calories. So, really, the Five star food would be cheaper than the Purina because you would feed less of it.
Dusty,

Mobil & Turbo (4/14, probably DS)

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johninny
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Tell us about yourself: DS and Mal foster newly approved aug'12 by NADSR and ABMCR. high-functioning Autistic in nyc/hamptons in my 60's. Rescued the smartest dog i had ever seen off nyc street in 2000. Tracedog's intelligence exceeded by multiples my judgement that day. My first [and only as of 10/2012] dog turned out to be a DS, perhaps with a touch of something else, but attention to detail, behavioral traits, and physical habits, movement, and skill identical to DS. But MUCH more intellectual ability. supremely confident in all settings, fearless, very outgoing and social with people and friendly with dogs. Seldom apart in over 12 years, Trace Dog was the most important relationship of my adult life; he was my partner. He died july17,2012. i am dying without him. www.youtube.com/tracesobaka www.dogster.com/dogs/637612
Location: NH/hamptons/nyc

Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by johninny » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:47 pm

so completely right, Dusty.

it was also great that you picked up on the food quality issue and that it might have much or everything to do with making the dog vulnerable in the first place.
but it is definitely the case that the better the food, the less you need of it AND the healthier the dog ---- leading to a happier dog, happier family, and lower vet costs than would otherwise be the case.

most people don't realize how reasonably priced SOME of the top brands are and how really REALLY BAD the middling-rated brands are - not less the worst-rated brands that are basically just corn, sugars, and chemical poisons. [ the cheap brands tend to get their additives from China and most of those are tainted, whereas the really conscientious companies [ brands ] never use nutritional or other additives from questionable places like China - which is again why i like merrick so much; i know they will strive to make those sourcing decisions correctly.]

one brand i do not know directly - or even how it rates, but if cost is of ultimate importance [ though i think your analysis was spot on - that you can upgrade to very good at no real increase in costs ], then i think costco's in-house Kirkland brand does a dog food. if that is correct, it is probably a decent formulation at very reasonable cost and would be worth reseaching. other than ingredients - which can be checked - my main concern would be sourcing/quality of the lesser nutritional ingredients, but still i would think this brand would be a huge step up from the supermarket brands. one more caveat: it is not necessarily cheaper than the solution you suggested, in which case your recommendation should probably prevail.
John & DS rscus TRACE DOG,99-12; fstr7yoCain,8-9/12; Xander(3/12)11/12-2/13; SAKIMA (b.4/12)from11/12; TxXANDER (b.2/13)from5/13; direct from CherCar: TRACER (b.5/4/13). http://www.youtube.com/sakimadoggy http://www.youtube.com/tracesobaka

Mobil
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by Mobil » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:07 pm

Kirkland has a four star rating.
Dusty,

Mobil & Turbo (4/14, probably DS)

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Stacy_R
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by Stacy_R » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:17 pm

Personally, I would stay away from any food manufactured in the Diamond plants because of their history with recalls, no matter what the star rating is. This list includes:
Diamond
Kirkland
NutraGold
Nutra Nuggets
Premium Edge
Professional
Taste of the Wild

The following foods *were* manufactured in Diamond's facilities at one time, but I'm not 100% sure if they still are:
4Health
Apex
Canidae
Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover’s Soul
Country Value
Natural Balance
Solid Gold

Wellness actually fired Diamond and no longer uses the Diamond facilities and they no longer purchase any products from Diamond either.

The foods that we recommend when adopting a dog out are:
Orijen
Acana
Wellness Core
Blue Buffalo
Merrick
~Stacy
Mom to:
Tyson - DS mix (Hendrix's Soul Sibling and Dinga Roo's long lost twin)
Baby Ruth - Miniature Schnauzer
Snickers - Miniature Pinscher
http://www.rescuedme.org

johninny
Working Dog
Posts: 1326
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:22 am
Tell us about yourself: DS and Mal foster newly approved aug'12 by NADSR and ABMCR. high-functioning Autistic in nyc/hamptons in my 60's. Rescued the smartest dog i had ever seen off nyc street in 2000. Tracedog's intelligence exceeded by multiples my judgement that day. My first [and only as of 10/2012] dog turned out to be a DS, perhaps with a touch of something else, but attention to detail, behavioral traits, and physical habits, movement, and skill identical to DS. But MUCH more intellectual ability. supremely confident in all settings, fearless, very outgoing and social with people and friendly with dogs. Seldom apart in over 12 years, Trace Dog was the most important relationship of my adult life; he was my partner. He died july17,2012. i am dying without him. www.youtube.com/tracesobaka www.dogster.com/dogs/637612
Location: NH/hamptons/nyc

Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by johninny » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:41 pm

wow Stacy! --- thank you.

now that you say that about Diamond [ which i had never heard of and had forgotten til you said this] ----
this was the food being fed to an 8 mo DS puppy that i rescued a couple years ago. i was told he was exceedingly finicky about food and would not eat his food for hours or even a day, but if i left it ''out'', he would eventually eat when he got hungry enough.

i was given the remaining food [ diamond ] to take with me. when fed him that night in a motel room, he would not go anywhere near that food. then i put down a bowl of the food i had brought [merrick] and he ate it without hesitation as if he had not eaten for weeks! this dog would happily eat anything and everything [ grapefruit, lemon, and unfortunately my compost pile ], so he was not the least picky, but he knew diamond was poison!

so thank you; i will never again mention kirkland as a possibility as i have several times on here.

but this does go to show that these ratings that depend exclusively or primarily on reading and understanding the labels/the ingredients as listed are just not enough. the services that go and inspect plants, investigate procurement and sourcing practices [ and even philosophy ], and test for what ingredients ACTUALLY are [ like do they contain chemical additives that should not be there which is common for china-sourced ingredients - which are extremely common!] are the only ones that can be relied on to find a food that provides great nutrition AND does no collateral harm to your dog.
John & DS rscus TRACE DOG,99-12; fstr7yoCain,8-9/12; Xander(3/12)11/12-2/13; SAKIMA (b.4/12)from11/12; TxXANDER (b.2/13)from5/13; direct from CherCar: TRACER (b.5/4/13). http://www.youtube.com/sakimadoggy http://www.youtube.com/tracesobaka

Stacy_R
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by Stacy_R » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:14 am

johninny wrote:wow Stacy! --- thank you.
My pleasure, John! You know that nutrition is where my passion is!!! :)
~Stacy
Mom to:
Tyson - DS mix (Hendrix's Soul Sibling and Dinga Roo's long lost twin)
Baby Ruth - Miniature Schnauzer
Snickers - Miniature Pinscher
http://www.rescuedme.org

alspyce
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Tell us about yourself: I am in New York State. Got my first DS about 14 years ago (more or less as a rescue- lost her in Nov.). After years of GSD's, and a few dogs of other breeds (Rotti/Beauceron/Ger. Shorthaired Pointer/ Yorkie and my current Jack Russell) I now have another DS, 4mo female, no name yet, tho I have a few in mind.
Also have a horse-old quarter horse mare-32.
Can't wait for all the snow to get gone! Spring is coming too slow this year!
Location: Corinth, New York

Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by alspyce » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:11 pm

Demodectic mange mites are normally on canine skin, and can become problematic when a dog is stressed/or immune system is challenged. If this is the type of mite you are dealing with, I would add some support for the immune system into the diet. Home remedy use to be "flowers of sulfur" mixed into vaseline, and applied after an iodine shampoo. Hound people say this worked???
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." Anatole France
Chris Carlton/Lyric

montecarlogirl87
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by montecarlogirl87 » Thu May 12, 2016 4:37 pm

I'm starting to think Shota + skin issues is going to be a lifelong fight

the mange is long healed (thank gods, been around a year), all her hair had grown back, she looked great... and then, she started getting two small patches (one on each side) right behind her shoulder... I kept an eye on it, thinking perhaps she had scratched herself/Shylah played too rough/she rubbed up against something... but then they grew in size

took her to the vet, who did another skin scrape (given her history with mange), honestly, I was hoping it was just a small reoccurrence because she had responded so well to the Ivermectin treatments... but no dice, there were no mites present... the vet gave her a shot (Vetalog) thinking it could perhaps be allergies of some sort... (maybe because it's spring now)

she seemed to scratch less but the hairless spots were still there, so one day when I was out my dad went and took her to the vet he had been taking her to when she had mange (the vet who failed to help her, the vet who gave me fish oil pills instead of medication, the vet who told me I should feed a LOWER quality food because it would have more fat and help her coat), he convinced my dad there had been some sort of bug living in her skin and had made its way out, gave her a universal medicated shampoo, a topical spray, and a round of Cipro

the spray and Cipro have been used up... spots are still there, she doesn't seem to itch them specifically much, but she has been rubbing her back on the carpet a bit

they're not raw, they're not red (unless she gets at them), they're just... hairless, a little dry... and slowly growing... she was licking the spray off so she's been wearing a tank top for a few days just to keep them covered

I'm at a loss... literally nothing has changed... the shampoo I use is the same (Zymox, other than the medicated one), there's been no changes in our yard, there's been no changes with their food (Blue Life Protection)

I'm starting to grasp at straws... I know Blue's had some controversy lately, but they've both been doing well on it... what are people's experiences with Canidae? Wellness? Solid Gold? Whole Earth? AvoDerm? Taste of the Wild? Blue Basics/Freedom/Wilderness? I know many of you like Merrick, but I remember someone posting that they had been bought by someone else?

literally the only thing I can think is I had tried a new cat litter. I switched from a walnut based to a wheat based, and even though they both know better and they both get scolded if they get caught... they both think the cat tootsie rolls are delicacies ... maybe she was getting little grains of the litter when she went for the turds and is allergic to wheat? wheat specifically isn't listed in Blue's ingredients (other grains are, like barley and rice) but that was part of their lawsuit wasn't it? That there had been wheat by products in their food?

I've switched back to the walnut based litter, both because I didn't like the wheat, and just in case that's Shota's problem. I don't want to start an endless cycle of foods hoping something works, but I'm not sure what else to do

I put iodine on them this morning, since I've used up the topical spray... dad's a melodramatic ass, acts (and makes comments to the effect) that we'll have to put her down :evil: just because a dog has skin issues doesn't mean you kill them... that's like scrapping a car just because it has some rust... other than that she's healthy and happy!
Tareena and Shylah and Shota - Orlando, FL

Owned-By-Hendrix
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Tue May 17, 2016 7:30 am

Is it an area she can reach? H has a tendency to... Defur himself when a bug bites him and it takes forever to grow back. I want to say last time he did that it took more than 3 weeks for it to start growing back. And then it itched so he de-furred himself again.

It could be allergies. Spring brings new blooms, pollen, bugs, and weather, so it may be the cause. Keep a diary and see if there's any overlap of food/environmental. Only thing I would suggest on top of this is maybe a damp cloth wipe down all over every time she comes in? See if the cat litter Change back helped? As far as Blue goes, I'm not sure, could be just the straw that broke the camels back. Merrick was bought by Nestle but Merrick has claimed it won't see any changes. I know Orijen has switched to a Kentucky distributor and has changed its tag line from "Canadian" to "Heritage". I would say switch food as a semi last resort since I know it can be a pain finding another that is good for them.
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

montecarlogirl87
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by montecarlogirl87 » Tue May 17, 2016 5:37 pm

yeah, it's right on her sides, I got Nu-Stock which had rave reviews online, sulfur based, used on dogs, cats, horses, just about anything, I put it on in the morning right before she gets a shirt put on

I take the shirt off overnight, this morning I woke up and checked it over, white skin, still obviously some sort irritation thou... I normally give her an hour or two sans-shirt in the morning... but she went out back and scratched herself red and raw... so I had to put the shirt back on her

it was about the size of a half dollar coin when it started... now it's easily the size of my palm, on each side :(

seasonal allergies was an idea I had too, but damn it's intense... dad thinks because he saw her chewing on a chunk of an old buried stump we have out back that she's got some sort of bug living in her skin... he saw a story about some dog that had worms under it's skin (like those horror stories about people with bugs under their skin), but those cases are rare, but because he saw it, he instantly believes it (he also believes the moon is an alien spaceship that's watching over us... so yeah...)

I just fear that if I start switching food it's going to take forever... at least a month or more per food to even see if there's any changes

and unfortunately, because I'm in between jobs, the vet bills and such are being covered by my dad, and he likes to hold that over me, because it's his money, he's also got that old country mindset that if a dog had something like mange bad enough, you took it out back and shot it cus it couldn't be saved... well, newsflash, we've progressed a bit since then
Tareena and Shylah and Shota - Orlando, FL

TimL_168
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Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by TimL_168 » Fri May 20, 2016 3:37 am

My Shiloh, Aurora had...has...some autoimmune issues. There's a world of allergy type reactions that may be the result of an unknown allergen, but could just as easily be a presentation of the dog's body attacking itself. Aurora had a horrible ulcer in the soft pallet of her mouth when she was younger. Her breeder told me to ignore it and it would go away. I knew better, took her to the second most expensive vet in Baltimore. I paid thousands over about two years for prednisone, and then all the meds and visits to fix the litany of problems that the prednisone caused. Finally, I ignored it as was suggested. It went away and never came back. I still think it was related to a silly carpet vacuuming powder my girlfriend was using for a while. In your case, with what sounds like symmetry in the ulcers, it sounds systemic. I just read this whole thread, but can't remember if a steroid was ever discussed.

now, Aurora has developed SLO. It's horrible. It's an autoimmune disorder where the body attacks the nail beds. The only "cure" is amputation of the last knuckle. But it's systemic and symmetrical. It's all the toes...
Her breeder told me she's dealt with it a couple times and one of her oldest dogs (a rescue) had it. She told me to add fish oil vitamin E, and niacin to her diet. The vet suggested a couple other things at her last checkup. It can be managed. So, even if it's not a food allergy, don't lose hope!
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

montecarlogirl87
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by montecarlogirl87 » Fri May 20, 2016 2:20 pm

TimLenert_168 wrote: In your case, with what sounds like symmetry in the ulcers, it sounds systemic. I just read this whole thread, but can't remember if a steroid was ever discussed.
they had her on prednisone when she had mange... the first vet (who I don't like) put her on that and fish oil pills while he did mitaban dips, which didn't help... then I turned around and took her to a different vet, who put her on ivermectin and a declining dose of prednisone just to keep her itching in check while the ivermec went to work

she was declared mange free and had all her hair grown back for about a year when this showed up :cry:

the Nu-Stock cream seems to sorta work... I put it on in the morning and put a shirt on her so she cant lick/rub it off... at night when I take the shirt off the skin looks white/pink and smooth with only minor irritation... but if I leave her without a shirt she'll turn around and scratch it raw... she's got a small quarter size spot on her butt she's bitten red because it's past what the shirt covers

I looked up Solid Gold Seameal, thinking of trying that too... from what I've read most allergies are environmental and only a small portion are food... but that's just me googling

I looked up a doggie dermatologist out of curiosity... there's ONE local, but from the reviews I've seen it looks like a shady office... they hit you with a massive bill the first time and then keep you coming back for ongoing treatments... I understand that could possibly be the correct treatment, but most of the people leaving reviews complained of it, and several said their dog didn't get any better
Tareena and Shylah and Shota - Orlando, FL

TimL_168
Training Dog
Posts: 583
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by TimL_168 » Fri May 20, 2016 3:19 pm

I totally get being leery of some vets. The old vet was "best of Baltimore" forever. Great facility. But, they're going to sell you something each and every time. It's even been alleged that they aren't really doing all their tests/treatments they claim to. With the issue Aurora had, it was either environmental, or she grew out of it. The fact that she's developed a second autoimmune issue, muddies that distinction.
Wondering if there's any way you could try to rule out environmental factors. Is there a family friend she could stay with for a week to see if anything changes? I know with us humans, sometimes repeated exposure to allergens can lead to hypersensitivity.

The horrible thing with prednisone is what it does to the immune system. Aurora ended up with ringworm. It took me over a year to get her back to normal.
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

ralbucks
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Re: Allergies/Rash?

Post by ralbucks » Fri May 27, 2016 3:58 am

Sorry about your dog's skin problems. Some skin conditions can be recognized by their appearance. I was just wondering if you could search online for an image showing a similar skin condition to what your dog is having. I"m sure you have done this, but if you google images of let's say 'bald spots dog" see if any are similar to what your dog has. My dog had 2 bald itchy spots after me giving him wheat in his diet, so an allergy to wheat. It took him 2 months to get his fur back on those bald spots. Frequent oatmeal baths and infrequent Benadryl, I think helped. I put oatmeal in a coffee paper filter and then tie it with an elastic, let it float in the bath, squeeze it gently,the liquid (infusion) comes out. It 's a recipe I found on the internet , this way you don't have to clean. I guess some dogs have more sensitive skin than others, just like humans.

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