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Allergies ??

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Smanders
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Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:10 am
Tell us about yourself: My name is Sarah, my puppy is named Hobbes. He is 5 months old and full of piss and vinegar. Currently training in obedience and just starting with tracking. This is my first puppy so I am always looking for advice!

Allergies ??

Post by Smanders » Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:49 pm

Haven't posted anything in a long time, as Hobbes and I have been all over Northern Ontario, mostly without internet. Just came back to the city a couple months ago and Hobbes has developed what we think are allergies suddenly in September when we got here. I've taken him to the vet several times, got blood work, urinalysis, and tests for multiple disorders done. The tests have all shown that all his organs are working, he doesnt have any infections etc. They have all been clean.With the exception that he has a higher then normal white blood cell count, the vet hasn't been sure what to make of that. But all in all he seems perfectly healthy. He is behaving normally.

His feet and jowls are a mess :( The vet has prescribed "Topagen- Gentamicin /Betamethasone" for his feet which is a spray, and Vanectyl P, which is a pink pill that is supposed to help with his allergies. Unfortunately Hobbes has had a bad reaction the the Vanectyl P (it makes him vomit, everytime) so I am not comfortable giving it to him anymore.

I've been reading the post on allergies below, and it seems that people have had some luck giving their pups Bendryl, so perhaps we will try that, but just looking for advice if anyone else has dealt with sever allergies like this before,or if anyone recognizes it as something else. My vet is pretty certain that its environmental allergies.

We wash his feet every-time he comes in. I got boots for him, but he just rips them off and prances around the house with them in his mouth ... Its near impossible to get all 4 on.
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-Sarah & Hobbes-

Owned-By-Hendrix
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Re: Allergies ??

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:41 pm

Sadly that may be it. There's been a lot of environmental shifting with global warming so there may be something in the smog/pollution/air he doesn't like that is "new" to his system.

Is he licking/chewing his feet? Downward dog stretching? Vomiting? Itchy? What food is he on now? Dire rear?

With H we have to double dose his Benadryl (50 mg versus 25 mg twice a day) during bad allergies. Wipe downs every single time he walks outside with a damp towel (washed out every single use) or disposal wipies. Sometimes foot soaks with very diluted iodine or just warm water. Nupro silver is also an awesome supplement that really helps for allergies.
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

Smanders
Puppy
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:10 am
Tell us about yourself: My name is Sarah, my puppy is named Hobbes. He is 5 months old and full of piss and vinegar. Currently training in obedience and just starting with tracking. This is my first puppy so I am always looking for advice!

Re: Allergies ??

Post by Smanders » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:39 am

He licks his feet, not obsessively just sometimes after we get in from walks. I have been trying to make sure to wash his feet every-time we come in, but I guess I will have to get better at it. As for new food, we are trying Royal Canine hypoallergenic. Previously we fed him Raw, "Pets for life" lamb. We actually also use Nupro :)
His skin seems very itchy, he loves to just roll and roll in the grass (more so then normally) and rubs his face on the ground. I can tell he is itchy. Just got some Benadryl and will try and see if that helps atall.
Thanks for your response!! Its so weird that he has just developed this when he was fine all summer :( Makes me just want to move back up North!!
-Sarah & Hobbes-

Owned-By-Hendrix
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Re: Allergies ??

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:44 am

I would try the iodine, just a few minute soak, really super diluted, to see if that helps with itchy feet. It has been recommended to me for wounds and allergy feet. I would also make sure you really clean between the toes and pat dry. Also Zymox shampoo (you don't need the conditioner) will help with the itchiness, as will wipe downs with a damp cloth/wipee after every single outdoor/window open/looked outside adventure. During really bad pollen outbreaks I would wash H every week with Zymox and it was the only thing that helped. Hopefully you won't have to do that but Zymox really does do wonders for itchy skin!

If you're religious about the wipe downs, you'll see a decrease in itchiness. I would also up the house cleaning too - if anything is tracked in it'll stay in the environment. H will walk in and stand on a towel, I wipe down his body, and the second a paw is clean I move back the towel so he's not touching it again. It gets kinda ridiculous but it does help. If you have a HEPA filter you may want to run that in areas Hobbes is in a lot, if not I would just make sure you vacuum biweekly. Trust me, I am in your boat right now with fall finally hitting the south, so I'm currently moping the floor twice a week and vacuuming three times a week, and if I never have to see another damp cloth for a few months I'll be so happy lol!

I personally think it looks like hives, and in that case the only thing you can do is run allergy protocols as if he were an allergic child and clean, clean, clean. But that is my internet MD talking, ;) lol. Benadryl is fairly safe to dose, and I would ask your vet what he recommends the highest dose is, per 24 hour period. I used to give H I believe 75 mg 2x a day safely before we got things figured out.

Also, Royal Canine may make his allergies worse - vet's like to push (that or Hill's Science Diet) but in my experience it can make things worse. If he handles it well, awesome, but if he doesn't I would keep him on the same food he's used to. Histamine makes the gut produce more mucus which means if something sets it off, you're going to get slimy dire rear. With allergies, the body is under stress, so altering things can set off a chain reaction in the gut that takes a while to restore, so I like to try to keep things as much the same unless it's causing issues. H is super duper king of that cascade! I hope Stacey chimes in - she knows a bit more about supplements that may help his immune system... I think when I was having troubles with H she recommended spirulina...

I agree - it drives me insane with the environmental allergies. Hopefully it's just something blooming/releasing spores and it'll die down in a few weeks. Keep us updated!
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

Owned-By-Hendrix
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Tell us about yourself: Dutch Shepherd Owner.

Re: Allergies ??

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:53 am

Oh! I will also add you may want to look into Claratin (sp?) too, my friend claims it helps her mal with allergies (who gets itchy) better than Benadryl. Again, ask the vet for dosage.

Also tree tree oil may help with any hot spots that may develop. I used to coat it on H's paws for a few hours relief when he would worry at a spot.
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

Smanders
Puppy
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:10 am
Tell us about yourself: My name is Sarah, my puppy is named Hobbes. He is 5 months old and full of piss and vinegar. Currently training in obedience and just starting with tracking. This is my first puppy so I am always looking for advice!

Re: Allergies ??

Post by Smanders » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:54 pm

Thanks again for your response!! It is just starting to snow here, so I am VERY hopeful that whatever he is allergic to will go away with the cold! I'm sorry you and Hendrix also have to go through all this allergy stuff, but I am so fortunate that you have passed on and shared your advice!! Thank you!!
I have never heard of the Zymox shampoo, but will look into it, it sounds wonderful. As for iodine, I will try that also. The easiest method for me to get Hobbes feet clean is to have him jump in and out of the tub, so I am sure with ample treats I could get him to stay in their for a couple minutes longer :)
I've tried coconut oil on his paws, but unfortunately, he just licks it off.

Aside from Hobbes, bleach is my best friend. Really started going crazy with it when we started to feed him Raw awhile back. I am dedicated to vacuuming (black furniture was a BAD idea!!!!), but moping is not my favourite ... guess I should pick that up again. I hadn't really thought of that, and that is probably a fantastic idea. Same with open windows ... mine are open all the time. You've got me thinking about all the things I don't clean regularly ... like his dog bed. I vacuum it often, but I don't do a full wash as often as I should.

Does anyone have any advice for boots? I don't know if any of your dogs are as intolerable to them as mine is, but he is super wily and rips them off the minute I'm not looking (and it takes SOOO long to get them on)I know sounds ridiculous, but just until his feet are recouped, I don't really want his feet touching anything outside, especially now that there is snow as they have started salting. I picked up vet wrap and was just thinking about wrapping his feet in human socks, then with vet wrap and just doing that before we go outside. Can anyone think of a better idea or recommend a better product ? I do have the typical boots that have the velcrow (not sure how to spell that) strap and waterproof paw part, but he just rips them off immediately.

I was hoping the hypoallergenic food would help, but I also was vary of changing something that has worked for us. I really respect my vet, and she explained it well saying that he might also be slightly allergic to something that he is eating and the environmental allergies here are just pushing him past his "thresehold" limit. I'm not doing her justice explaining it. However, I think you are right about changing things up too quickly, especially when we are giving him different antihistamines to try and find something that works. Probably a good idea to just stick with Raw for now.

Again, Thanks for all your advice! Going to clean like mad this week (sparkling house) and be crazy about cleaning his feet every-time he comes in (and making sure my housemate, and dog walker does as well!!) I'll let you know how he does this week on the benadryl too!!

Thank you!!!
-Sarah & Hobbes-

Owned-By-Hendrix
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Tell us about yourself: Dutch Shepherd Owner.

Re: Allergies ??

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:23 pm

She could very well be right but I'm usually hesitant to change everything at once just because then you don't know what the cause is and there may be a cascade effect. If he's not doing better on all this then I would consider changing food, but only after about 2-3 weeks (gives his system time to settle and you should start to see the effects).

That's really interesting - was there a particular flavor that he started reacting badly to? Lamb is pretty hypoallergenic, and I looked at the blends and it may be a veggie and not meat he's allergic to. If food allergy is still a concern, I would try one of two things - switch him to a meat and bone only blend (or just feed straight up chicken leg quarters or what have you. Vita essentials is meat and bone only), and see if it's a meat or veggie allergy, and then try to isolate it from there, or switch to a home cooked diet where you're only feeding one thing every week or two (I forget what they call this). If you ever have to switch back to kibble and it's a meat allergy it would be helpful to know so you can stay away from it.

I know! With all the cleaning I get OCD and start thinking about all the places it can hide! lol. I ended up teaching H an accidental command of "soak" which was pretty much in the tub, treat, treat, out, in the tub, treat, treat, treat.... He got the idea (after a brief period of thinking part of the command was leaping in and out of the tub). Wear things you don't mind getting wet/iodine on...

As far as shoes, ruff trex are really good from what I hear but I think you have to order like two different sizes since in general they are one size and a dog's feet are two different sizes... Until he's okay with shoes I would practice on socks and tape and watch him. If he doesn't like shoes he may never want to wear them and then you're out the money. There's also things like Musher's Secret which while wax based won't protect I between his toes it will protect his pads. Hopefully others will have some more boot ideas!


Edit: another thought you might want to consider is how long after you started using more bleach did this start? I think someone on the forum once had a dog who was allergic to bleach, so it's another source or allergen you may want to consider. Again, I would start with environmental outside allergen and then start narrowing things down if that doesn't work. Keeping a diary of when you clean with bleach and when he breaks out in hives would be another thing I would add if I was looking into a bleach allergy.
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

funkyhunky
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Re: Allergies ??

Post by funkyhunky » Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:39 am

Hello,
I'm in Ontario as well.
My dog has similar sores on her mouth. However, they are very tiny in comparison to your dog's.
Try panolog ointment. You can get it from your vet. We have lynden trees in our yard and my dog likes to chew on the broken branches she finds. I think she is sensitive to the lynden. I ran out of the panalog a while back and now when I see the sores flare up I use the oily style polysporin. Dry the sores off with tissue and apply the poly. It's worth a try.
goodluck,
dan
Dan form Ontario

centrop67
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Re: Allergies ??

Post by centrop67 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:14 pm

My lab had severe food allergies. They showed up as sores around the nose, mouth and eyes. He also had sores at his hindquarters that were hard to detect due to hair. Finally, his elbows would puff up in huge balls of fluid.

We had the food allergy and environmental allergy panels done, and started adjusting his food until we finally eliminated ALL problems. This dog was allergic to rice, peanut butter, corn, and carrots. Just about every ingredient found in dog food.

We were able to find the perfect food for him to go symptom free for 10+ years until the food was discontinued. We then had to start over, but we quickly solved it again.

This has to start with getting the allergy tests and moving on from there. They're not perfect, but they can get you in the right direction. The topical treatments are going to provide only very temporary relief. You have to eliminate the allergy cause to relieve your dog.
Michael
The pack -> Radar (DS), Leela (Mal?), and Karen (Human) - Cutler Bay, FL USA
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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Raven
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Re: Allergies ??

Post by Raven » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:58 pm

I haven't read all the replies, just enough to make a couple brief comments.

Boots: you might want to try wrapping/tying his feet in towels or put socks on. I did this with my dog, and he walked around fine. I didn't have to go the boot route; I just wanted him to get used to things on his feet if I ever needed to protect them. Since your dog is already against the boots, maybe begin one foot at a time--and once the towel/sock is on, mark, reward and remove. Success. Then build up the time, and then the number of feet. Then try a boot. Etc.

Tea tree oil: great stuff, but can be very drying. Observe and use with care.
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

Smanders
Puppy
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:10 am
Tell us about yourself: My name is Sarah, my puppy is named Hobbes. He is 5 months old and full of piss and vinegar. Currently training in obedience and just starting with tracking. This is my first puppy so I am always looking for advice!

Re: Allergies ??

Post by Smanders » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:00 pm

Hey All!!

Thanks for the replies! Here is a bit of an update, the benadryl seems to be making a HUGE difference. He seems to not be nearly as itchy (not rubbing his face on things as much) and his jowls have improved ( drastically in 2 days!) which I am attributing to the Benadryl. I'll take a picture later and post :) His feet however, continue to seem to get worse :(
I think because of the boots, he is just wary of me having things that I could possibly put on his feet. We have done a "game" since he was small of shaking all 4 feet (which he was very good at) but now he is wary about letting me touch them, especially if I have the spray to put on them or boots or socks. He knows. Fortunately he gets into the tub very willingly and we are trying the iodine soaks to see if that makes any difference. I think I will have to work up to getting one sock on one foot. He is super grouchy about his feet right now, and clearly they really hurt. I am thinking of having a couple days of very limited (like mostly indoor) exercise to just help things along. Its kind of a double catch in that he gets crazy if he doesn't have his daily outings. sigh. Yep. See how my house fairs with that ... ha, actually, Im lucky, he has never torn anything up (with the exception of stuffed animals), he just gets wild energy bursts if he is in for too long. Im sure you are all familiar with that.
-Sarah & Hobbes-

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