Arthritis

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Groc352
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Arthritis

Post by Groc352 »

Glad to see forum still alive.


I recently had some X rays done on Molly and the vet said she has Arthritis in her front shoulder.
the arthritis is caused by being hit by a car when she was about 1yr old. before we got her from rescue.

went to an expensive specialist and was told no running, jumping, or generally excited behavior.
Said I should massage and stretch her out as much as possible and go for short walks, but other then that to crate her.
also that we can do laser treatments at a cost of $75 per session, minimum of 7 sessions to see results....

with a 3yr old Dutch shepherd? ya right.

So I have been doing that as much as I can, but Im not noticing much change in the way she walks. she has always had a limp. but when in drive and excited it goes away and she runs and jumps just fine. just at night she limps on one leg.

in talking with our trainer, he said not to be so worried about it. let her do her thing, keep exercising her so she does not gain any weight, but not to be so concerned about it. he advised to do small jumps in succession and repetition to rebuild the muscles in the shoulder. and massage the shoulder as much as possible.

through massage I have noticed, every muscle in the dogs body seems tight, front shoulders, rear legs/hips, neck. everything! do others notice this tight muscle in their dogs also?

also we have started her on Glycoflex 3 joint supplement, and she gets 100mg of tramadol twice a day. per vet and trainers recommendations.


I'm just curious if anyone else has dogs with similar joint issues, and what do you do to keep them active and happy.
Ryan

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Dutch shepherds about 2 years old.
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Re: Arthritis

Post by Raven »

I wish I could be of help with canine arthritis, but just some concerns I'd like to share (having gotten arthritis at an early age myself...and arthritis is arthritis).

First, I'm sorry she has it. It's painful. And no matter what you seem to do to manage it, there are flares.

Diet: anti-inflammatory. My guess is this would be trial and error for you, process of observation and elimination: can you correlate with any consistent results that when she eats this and this, she has flares or at the least gets worse? Research if turmeric powder is toxic to animals. It's THEE BEST anti-inflammatory on the planet, bar none. If it's not toxic to canines, what doseage? Half-teaspoon/day? Don't know. I know dogs can eat blueberries, another great anti-inflammatory, but again, how much is beneficial to her? (Broccoli and other cruciferous vegetables are equally great anti-inflammatories BUT they produce gas and I'd have to say stay away from those, as well as any foods that, of course, are known to be toxic to dogs.

Indeed building muscle around the affected joints help, as does managing weight, but as you know, it won't stop the pain or flares.

Remaining active is important as well--walks--but listen to her if she doesn't want to walk. Some days are hard and the pain just makes a simple walk miserable.

I've never heard of anyone recommending joint-jarring exercises for arthritis. That would further break down the cartilage and connective tissue. Smooth, short walks when she feels like it, yes...and swimming is excellent support for damaged joints.

As for the tight muscles...did you talk with the vet about the tightness? I'm worried they could go into spasms. Those are nightmares that don't away soon and take a long time to heal. You can also INDUCE spasms by exercise that is too taxing on the surrounding muscle.

What about a consult with a animal/canine chiropractic or massage therapist?
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~
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Re: Arthritis

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix »

So I have no hands-on experience with arthritis, just knowledge from second hand training and dealings.

Arthritis is degenerative and as such I would base treatment on a sliding scale depending on day and pain level.

1) you probably won't notice a difference in the way her gait is because of the traumatic damage from the car hit and her pain level. For example, H's best friend Jakai is a GSD with arthritis in her back hips. Some days you can't even tell. Other days she doesn't want to climb into the car, stands slowly, doesn't want anyone touching her hips, etc. Her arthritis is so bad she has to be on rimadyll but her owner gives it to her on a sliding scale depending on how active she's going to be that day and pain level. I would be more concerned about changes in what's "normal" for her - if she always limps, and suddenly she's really favoring her leg, I would rest her. Use what you know about her level of "normal" to gauge how to treat her. She'll never be running without a limp, just a matter of how much that limp will affect her overall composure.
2) It is true that less "impact" activities are better, but at the same time you don't want to loose muscle mass because that causes more trouble. I would look into exercises like with bosu balls or peanut balls and work on stretching and balance and lower-key things you could maybe sub out for the high energy play. There will be times you will need to keep her low key and yes that is a PITA but with arthritis, these dogs will go until they can't or are in so much pain they can't function. So management is about maintaining quality of life and prolongation. There's a few rehab trainers with online courses you may want to check out. Swimming is also a fantastic activity, sadly, I know you're up north somewhere, will probably be a summer time only activity.
3) I wouldn't do jumping with her, but sub for another activity that builds muscle in the shoulders. I used to have a few off the top my head but can't remember them.
4) I do not think tramadol is an anti-inflammatory, just a pain killer, though I could be wrong. It will affect their senses to a small degree. I would ask the vet about rimadyll. I know when my guy had the paw injury, he was on tramadol and rimadyll, the former a pain killer and the latter an ant inflammatory.
5) you could start her in nosework and tracking, both of which require a substantial amount of mental work which will kill off her energy, even more so than obedience. It would be a good thing to have handy for days she may be in too much pain to move, going forward.
6) Massage will help to a degree. I've noticed the more active the dog, the more stiff the muscles, but that can also be because she is not comfortable. With any massage, go slowly and in spurts until you learn what she likes, then you'll begin to notice the difference between engaged muscles, hard muscles because they're toned, and stiff muscles from injury.
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Re: Arthritis

Post by Raven »

Forgot to move this thread to "Medical." Done.
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~
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Re: Arthritis

Post by Dutchringgirl »

What ???????? Crate an arthritic dog?? Um...............no

Sadie has double hip Dysplasia. I don't limit her at all. She is 5 now ( yes, she has survived this long with out going into the soup pot) (( newbies may not get that, sorry)) She was born with it, I believe. I never limit her, I do find that she will limit herself. SHe and Thalie play like crazy but only once in a while will I hear a yelp, then she will just go lay down for the rest of the day.

The best thing, is high quality food, good supplements, Massage, and if she dosnt limit herself, then you may have to.

Depending on how you feel about meds, I use natural healing herbs, Turmeric is a great pain reliever, you can look into some others. Usually good joint suppliments will have that stuff too.

I would also agree on no jumping. I have the kids old picknic table for Thalie to get in my truck, Its quite tall and at 14 jumping isn't her thing now.
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Re: Arthritis

Post by Groc352 »

She dosnt really limit her self much. when I get home from work shes ready to go out and play.
shell run and chase the ball like normal.
during walks she will 3 legged hop a bit after about a mile so that's when we usually stop and go back. but normally she will run and play for as long as I will let her. then at night she will lay down in her crate with a toy or antler and stay there most of the night. but gets up if I open a the door, or get food out.


right now im giving her the tramadol, and she hates it. but she takes it. its just got such a bitter nasty taste no food will hide it.
ive been giving her Glycolflex 3. which is supposed to be one of the best joint supplements you can give a dog right now.

im looking into getting both dogs into some nosework classes. espically since were in Wisconsin and its cold and snowy for the next few months, gotta keep them busy with something productive.
Ryan

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Re: Arthritis

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix »

I would just add this on exercise - if you know she starts to bunny hop at 1 mile, I would set up exercise for a maximum of 1 mile roundtrip, so half a mile to and from. Think of it if you have a bum leg - you walk for so long then start hurting, the thought of repeating the same distance back puts more strain on you and the injured leg. With stretching and rehab you can slowly increase the distance. That's just my two cents from behind a screen lol. I'll try to post some links to good videos for you about exercises you can do at home to help strengthen her legs - it's also a good low key energy buster because it's training.

I know nupro silver is also good for joints, as is some product from CPN (or CNP... I'm horrible with acronyms). And again, limit her if she won't limit herself, and by that you could also add in place training, as a random idea.

Also getting in and out of cars - I would train them both to use a ramp so you don't have the "hey she jumped and I want to too!" You can find some models on amazon that are decent around 50-100$, or if you're handy you could build one for probably cheaper. Jumping up on the couch and other objects would be a decision I would make depending on her pain and tolerance. The more you help her out now and build strength and limit impact activities, the better in the long run.
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Re: Arthritis

Post by Groc352 »

yea ill have to get something for her to climb on and off when she gets in and out of my truck. she dosnt think twice about jumping out....

I have been doing some research into switching to a raw diet. and a lot of people claim that they have seen huge gains in arthritis issues just by switching to a completely raw diet. there is so much info out there about raw diets, I'm not sure where to really look to lock down what to feed and how much. Going to talk to the vet and see if they have any ideas on raw diets, especially for an arthritic dog.

Also, I've noticed the weather has a huge impact on her mobility. lately its been in the negative temps and she seems extra sore and limps more. but when it warmed up to about 30-40 degrees she was much happier, bouncing around and not limping. maybe its time to move south! lol.

thinking of trying out some of the fitpaws products. or other brands. to help build muscle.
anyone ever use stuff like these? The inflatable peanuts and balance ball stuff.
Ryan

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Re: Arthritis

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix »

Your vet may poo-poo the raw idea just because most vets go off research funded by major kibble brands. If she has any inflammation to any byproduct in a kibble then switching to raw will help. I personally feed raw and love the results, but every dog is different.

To start, make sure you have freezer space! I started with chicken leg quarters. Some just stop kibble and start feeding the chicken, others do a slow transition like with switching kibble brands. She will have loose stools for a few days until her body adapts. You can add in a probiotic/digestive enzyme, tripe, or goats milk to try to easy the transition a bit. After that you're on raw. There are raw feeding calculators that help you decide how much to feed based off ideal weight and if you need to gain, lose, or maintain. From there you adapt to what goes best for her based off stools - too light means too much bone, liquid too much muscle or organ. There's charts and posts about ideal content and what type of food has what percentage of bone/organ. Or if you're like me you just go off variety of what they'll eat and what's on sale. You can also feed preground raw, like from Vital Essentials, but it can be either cheaper or pricier depending on your area.

As for the fitpaws, I got on Amazon and bought the human equivalent to all their products and they're still around. Saved me some cash and even if H goes gator on it it's still cheaper. Fitpaws are basically the same thing as the human PT pieces, just slightly thicker rubber and sometimes a better grip, so depending on how she is with texture either would be a good buy.
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Re: Arthritis

Post by Dutchringgirl »

Groc352 wrote:yea ill have to get something for her to climb on and off when she gets in and out of my truck. she dosnt think twice about jumping out....
yes, landing on an arthritic shoulder is not good
Groc352 wrote:
Going to talk to the vet and see if they have any ideas on raw diets, especially for an arthritic dog.
Dont bother, most vets dont agree on raw. Mine is cool with it but they know im not the run of the mill dog owner. Not that you are, but they respect how I take care of mine So they don't give me any pep talks.
Groc352 wrote: Also, I've noticed the weather has a huge impact on her mobility. lately its been in the negative temps and she seems extra sore and limps more. but when it warmed up to about 30-40 degrees she was much happier, bouncing around and not limping. maybe its time to move south! lol.
Yes, Sadie does better in the warmer weather. Its been cold here and just yesterday while sitting in the kitchen, she let out a yelp

I also make bone broth soup for the whole family and it helps too.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Re: Arthritis

Post by Groc352 »

Lisa, Do you think feeding a raw diet has helped Sadie with her hip issues, have you noticed a significant change when you started feeding raw? or was she always fed raw from a pup?

I want to start putting together a diet for the dogs. is there any foods specifically that would be best for arthritis? I would think chicken legs...


for the bone broth soup, do you just buy beef soup bones and boil them up? then cool, and give to them to drink? or put it in with their food
Ryan

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Re: Arthritis

Post by Groc352 »

Kira, what typed of exercises do you do with the balance ball stuff?
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Re: Arthritis

Post by Raven »

I had to start making bone broth for Thor (non-arthritis related) and was told any bones do. I also pour it in ice cube trays and keep them stockpiled in a freezer container. (He now spits out regular cubes. Snob.)



(I don't know about in dogs, but I'd think it'd be the same as with humans where some foods are known to promote inflammation while other foods may cause inflammation or flares in some folks but not in others. Beef and nightshades, for example, are known inflammatory foods, yet don't affect some people. Like I said earlier, I really think it would be a matter of observation with food and activities, much as it is with humans.)

I'd completely forgotten until now :duh: but years ago I had a dog that grew arthritic once he turned a million years old. I'd let him rest, supervised, on a heating blanket on low setting in the winter, especially if he was having a rough day.
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Re: Arthritis

Post by Dutchringgirl »

I buy a small whole chicke, an onion, celery, carrots ( all organic) cook in crockpot for about 24 hours. Dump all food and put broth in mason jars. Do NOT Feed cooked chicken or bones to the dogs. Then i put some soup in thier food.

I cant really say i saw a difference. She is pretty good at regulating herself. I now feed good food and suppliments so she seems to be pretty consistant.
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Re: Arthritis

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix »

For balance ball it's mainly getting on it and balancing. Use a peanut ball it's better for their body. Start half inflated and as they get more confident work your way up. I had H doing change on positions on it (but make sure to build a holder out of PVC first... I just held it with my legs and that was slightly dangerous). You can also use a bosu ball. Some people line them up and make them run across them (in holders). I personally started with the peanut ball even though it's recommended you start with the disks and move up. We like to jump in the deep end and sink or swim - although I would not recommend this route especially if you're not sure what she can handle.

http://careanimalclinic.com/rehab.html
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