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puppy annoying older dog

Puppies! We all love our puppies.
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Sugars Mom
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Tell us about yourself: I adopted a Dutch Shepherd mix (without knowing what she was) from the SPCA here in Victoria BC and am now trying to learn everything I can about this breed. My husband and I work from home most of the time so I thought it was time to get a puppy! We have his 2 boys here half the time and we wanted a nice family dog.

Sugar looks like a miniature Dutch Shepherd with floppy ears, and has every ounce of DS traits in her little body!

I hope to learn from other DS owners and share doggy experiences.
Location: Victoria BC

puppy annoying older dog

Post by Sugars Mom » Wed May 22, 2013 9:13 pm

I was interested in hearing from people who have added second dogs to their family, and how their experience went over time.

We met a rescue pup, brought from Mexico and had the opportunity to have him stay with us for the weekend.

When we met the first time, Sugar and the pup instantly got along, and played well. Ran around with each other, chasing, wrestling, play bowing, stopping then going back at it.

The lady who was looking for his forever home asked if we wanted to have him stay over the weekend to see how things went, to see if we wanted to adopt him. Of course I said yes!

He is about 6 months old, seems to be a Whippet mix and super smart. He does need to learn boundaries and needs training, but has a great recall and listens right away when I snap my fingers at him or say no if he does something I don't want him to do. Crate trained, no separation anxiety, potty trained, etc. Sugar will be 3 yrs in a couple of months. They are the perfect size for each other.

The concern I have is the second day Sugar and him played, he started biting her legs and butt and neck, and she tried to avoid the little shark, but he wouldn't stop. She was NOT impressed. I had to step in and then he would stop, but kept wanting to go back and bite her instead of play. She did amp up her displeasure with him as avoiding him was not working, but he was not getting it. I continually had to stop him. But he listened to ME every time. By the end of the weekend, he seemed to get it a bit, and would run at her then veer off before actually landing on her, but it seemed that he would rather bite her then play. And Sugar would rather avoid then have to tell him no all the time, so they didn't really play. I would redirect his energy elsewhere, so that, and telling him know did seem to be working. I know he's a puppy and still needs to learn the limits.

I read online about this, and people with similar problems did say their dogs are now best friends as the puppy stage passed, but I am wondering what people on this forum have to say.

I wanted Sugar to have a friend, not some one who is annoying her. Other then that, they are good together. A little sorting out between them with the toys, but no big issues there. They both understand I am in charge.

He def has a stronger personality then her. No problems making himself at home, lol. For example, we went out in the afternoon one day, and in the car, he just plopped down in the seat and Sugar looked at me, like "What the heck? Where do I sit?" but I told her to lay down and so she did and it was soooo cute seeing them curled up together. He even put his nose in her tail to keep it warm.

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Sue (and Sugar)

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Sugars Mom
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:16 am
Tell us about yourself: I adopted a Dutch Shepherd mix (without knowing what she was) from the SPCA here in Victoria BC and am now trying to learn everything I can about this breed. My husband and I work from home most of the time so I thought it was time to get a puppy! We have his 2 boys here half the time and we wanted a nice family dog.

Sugar looks like a miniature Dutch Shepherd with floppy ears, and has every ounce of DS traits in her little body!

I hope to learn from other DS owners and share doggy experiences.
Location: Victoria BC

Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Sugars Mom » Wed May 22, 2013 9:17 pm

Anyway, I know a few of you have added seconds, so how did it go from the start til now?
Sue (and Sugar)

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Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Dutchringgirl » Wed May 22, 2013 11:58 pm

Sue, he is beautiful, and from your description, sounds perfect! Well, you know all of my Sadie stories LOL. It really was fine. Sadie,(still) annoys Thalie but much much less then when Sadie was a pup. They played and played and always got along. Thalie would discipline Sadie when it got enough by growling, or putting her mouth on Sadies and Sadie would stop, and only twice or maybe three times in two years I had to break up a fight, ( Thalie would always look at Sadie and say " your lucky mom stepped in"). You know Sugar, and this dog seems to listen and respond already. There were times where I thought Sadie should stop annoying Thalie and I would just say "Sadie stop" and it would stop and be all fine. I am all for having two dogs , if your life can handle it. They play, and have their own buddy. Like any relationship, there will be bumpy times, but if over all they seem to get along, then Sugar may be fine.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Sugars Mom
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Tell us about yourself: I adopted a Dutch Shepherd mix (without knowing what she was) from the SPCA here in Victoria BC and am now trying to learn everything I can about this breed. My husband and I work from home most of the time so I thought it was time to get a puppy! We have his 2 boys here half the time and we wanted a nice family dog.

Sugar looks like a miniature Dutch Shepherd with floppy ears, and has every ounce of DS traits in her little body!

I hope to learn from other DS owners and share doggy experiences.
Location: Victoria BC

Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Sugars Mom » Thu May 23, 2013 12:52 am

He is beautiful!

My concern is that he isn't listening to Sugar stay stop, just me, and the question I have, is do you think he will learn to respect her if I teach/tell him to, or not? If she doesn't seem to get him to respect her, will it be an issue? I'm thinking as he gets older...

They aren't actually playing together anymore because it is not playing, but him tormenting her, and they end up on their hind legs "arguing" and I put an end to it. But they are fine together the rest of the time, just hanging out. So I am hoping he will learn to behave himself so she does want to play with him.
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Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu May 23, 2013 1:30 am

Sadie torments Thalie all of the time. It only lasts for a few seconds then they play and they do get rough but they have fun.
In the beginning I did alot of standing back and letting them figure it out. Thalie put Sadie in her place plenty and Sadie always submitted. If I saw Sadie not back down or escalate then I would step in and tell Sadie to knock it off. The best think, if you decide to take him, is to put a drag line on him. I did that with Sadie so If it did get too far I could pull Sadie right out. But it never did, Sadie learned to respect Thalie.
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Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Schlussdibusti » Thu May 23, 2013 3:40 pm

When Marco "arrived" within 10 seconds my senior Lab established his "boundaries" by biting Marco in the nose (bleeding) and showing his perly whites whenever Marco came 3 feet within distance.

I don't want to advocate dog fights at all but may be you need to step back and let Sugar be Vinegar. :mrgreen:
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Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu May 23, 2013 5:14 pm

I agree with Eva, I let Thalie do most of the discipline with Sadie, unless it went to a full blown fight. Its different when it is your own dogs, the fights never scared me like when its with an strange dog.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Tell us about yourself: I adopted a Dutch Shepherd mix (without knowing what she was) from the SPCA here in Victoria BC and am now trying to learn everything I can about this breed. My husband and I work from home most of the time so I thought it was time to get a puppy! We have his 2 boys here half the time and we wanted a nice family dog.

Sugar looks like a miniature Dutch Shepherd with floppy ears, and has every ounce of DS traits in her little body!

I hope to learn from other DS owners and share doggy experiences.
Location: Victoria BC

Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Sugars Mom » Thu May 23, 2013 5:39 pm

But Sugar is NOT stepping up...she is avoiding!
Sue (and Sugar)

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Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu May 23, 2013 6:20 pm

If you let them alone, do you think it will be a bad fight?
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Tell us about yourself: I adopted a Dutch Shepherd mix (without knowing what she was) from the SPCA here in Victoria BC and am now trying to learn everything I can about this breed. My husband and I work from home most of the time so I thought it was time to get a puppy! We have his 2 boys here half the time and we wanted a nice family dog.

Sugar looks like a miniature Dutch Shepherd with floppy ears, and has every ounce of DS traits in her little body!

I hope to learn from other DS owners and share doggy experiences.
Location: Victoria BC

Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Sugars Mom » Thu May 23, 2013 7:24 pm

If I let them alone, poor Sugar just tries to run away from him and he just keeps at her. I did tell her to let him know and she did try, but he still wouldn't stop and the 2 of them escalate to snarling and growling, up on their hind legs pawing at each other trying to get their teeth on each other and it just would escalate instead of diffuse, so I'd step in and put a stop to it. I haven't let it escalate to actual biting and blood, but I really don't want it to get to that point either. I can see its not fun for Sugar at all, this is not "playing", and even it he thinks it is playing, he should realize when enough is enough from her.
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Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Christie M » Thu May 23, 2013 8:41 pm

I think you are reading too much into it, honestly.

I know she is hating the interactions sometimes, but not enough to actually tell him off. Or when she tries there is interference. He will grow out of some of this eventually, but that is a ways off. I know you WANT him to respect her, but if he isn't picking up on those clues it is because SHE isn't giving them strongly enough. Trust me, a bitch dog can be a bitch dog. A true correction from her should cause him to be a crumbled mess for a few minutes. I know she hasn't done it YET, but it sounds like every time it escalates to where she could make an actual impact, you interfere. I can honestly count on one hand the number of times I have heard of a true dog fight between a male and a female - and never when one is a puppy.

I think it is good and needed for you to give them separate time and not allow horseplay all of the time. But I think that when you let them interact, you just need to :pint: and let Sugar handle things. She may be going into avoidance simply because she doesn't want to upset you by showing any aggression. Just because you told her to get him, doesn't mean she thinks that is actually OK. It is going to take multiple times of her being a little pushy, looking at you, seeing that you aren't mad, and pushing a little farther until she finally kicks his ass.

And honestly, it is play. It is all play. Even if she is not enjoying it, it is a form a play and she just needs to kick his ass. Dogs are WAY better at setting consistent boundaries than we are - they just have to feel like they have the freedom to do so.
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Sugars Mom
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Tell us about yourself: I adopted a Dutch Shepherd mix (without knowing what she was) from the SPCA here in Victoria BC and am now trying to learn everything I can about this breed. My husband and I work from home most of the time so I thought it was time to get a puppy! We have his 2 boys here half the time and we wanted a nice family dog.

Sugar looks like a miniature Dutch Shepherd with floppy ears, and has every ounce of DS traits in her little body!

I hope to learn from other DS owners and share doggy experiences.
Location: Victoria BC

Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Sugars Mom » Thu May 23, 2013 10:55 pm

LOL, K thanks! Actually, this afternoon they are playing better. He is still a little shark but I can see that Sugar is not as annoyed with him. She runs away from him and he chases but it seems more fun then it was before. She is much better at deeking him out and avoiding the teeth on her legs now too. So, I will relax...

Right now, Sugar is in her crate and he keeps sticking his head in, trying to get her to come out and play and after a few looks at him, she showed her teeth and made a small sound and he left right away. I'm feeling much better : ) Now he went into his crate to lay down and relax too. :D
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Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu May 23, 2013 11:28 pm

are they better or are you looking at it in a different light? Give them time, I have a feeling they will be okay. He is a pup, he wants to play, at 2 Sadie still torments Thalie to play, Thalie shows teeth, growls and next thing they are play fighting and having a blast.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Sugars Mom
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:16 am
Tell us about yourself: I adopted a Dutch Shepherd mix (without knowing what she was) from the SPCA here in Victoria BC and am now trying to learn everything I can about this breed. My husband and I work from home most of the time so I thought it was time to get a puppy! We have his 2 boys here half the time and we wanted a nice family dog.

Sugar looks like a miniature Dutch Shepherd with floppy ears, and has every ounce of DS traits in her little body!

I hope to learn from other DS owners and share doggy experiences.
Location: Victoria BC

Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Sugars Mom » Fri May 24, 2013 1:32 am

They are definitely better! He is stopping now when Sugar tells him to...and that was missing when I started posting. Thanks everyone!
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Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Dutchringgirl » Fri May 24, 2013 1:41 am

I think your are helping, you are feeling more comfortable now and I think your body language has relaxed and they feel it. You may be subconsciously backing off and giving Sugar the space to do her own discipline.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Tell us about yourself: I adopted a Dutch Shepherd mix (without knowing what she was) from the SPCA here in Victoria BC and am now trying to learn everything I can about this breed. My husband and I work from home most of the time so I thought it was time to get a puppy! We have his 2 boys here half the time and we wanted a nice family dog.

Sugar looks like a miniature Dutch Shepherd with floppy ears, and has every ounce of DS traits in her little body!

I hope to learn from other DS owners and share doggy experiences.
Location: Victoria BC

Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Sugars Mom » Fri May 24, 2013 4:06 am

Yup, they are working it out. :wtg:

But wow, he is a little piranha! :muffy: I remember Sugar when she was all teeth too...but in time it will pass.
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Tell us about yourself: I adopted a Dutch Shepherd mix (without knowing what she was) from the SPCA here in Victoria BC and am now trying to learn everything I can about this breed. My husband and I work from home most of the time so I thought it was time to get a puppy! We have his 2 boys here half the time and we wanted a nice family dog.

Sugar looks like a miniature Dutch Shepherd with floppy ears, and has every ounce of DS traits in her little body!

I hope to learn from other DS owners and share doggy experiences.
Location: Victoria BC

Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Sugars Mom » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:22 pm

So I guess its official…Sugar has a brother. Prancer is 7 months old now, a Whippet mix from Mexico. I've adopted him by taking over his vet fees for treating his dermadex mange (non contagious).

He is such a silly dog, but very good….listens so well. I can totally relate to Lisa'a stories about Thalie just looking at Sadie with a dignified look, or "what are you doing?" look, lol. They get along pretty well, and Sugar seems happy with the company…most of the time. He is totally the pesky little brother! Its funny. Its like a train here now, anywhere I go now, lol, me then 2 dogs following behind.

I do have questions for those of you with 2 dogs.

Do you correct them if they try to act dominate over the other?

Things the pup does with Sugar that I wonder if I should correct or not are:

When the pup wants the bed/toy/bone that Sugar has he will first give her the eye, sussing it out, then walk over to her. She ignores him. Then he walks up and over her, standing over top of her. Sometimes she will growl at him to leave her alone, but usually she jumps out of the way, dropping the toy/bone or leaving the bed for him which he happily takes over. Other ways he "demands" the toy/bed/bone is giving her a sharp bark and she gives it up.

There are lots of toys to go around, but you know how it is, whatever the other one has always looks way better…at least to Prancer. I have never seen Sugar try to take something from him, except when trowing the ball. She will not let him get the ball if I am throwing it for her, and he is learning to respect that, but there are still the disagreements from time to time. They are learning to take turns to get the ball which has been working really well.

He still loves to bite her legs and she does fine most of the time with blocking his annoying bites or pinning him down when he won't listen to her protests, but I wish there was a way to get him to learn to play nicer with Sugar instead of annoying her….I suppose he will figure it out eventually if he really want to play with her. Unless he is trying to annoy her…?

And then, after annoying her, he goes over and lays with her, not in a way to take over, but for the company and cuddles. Its cute. Sometimes she is not impressed and other times she cuddles into him too.

Obviously she is the submission one of the two, and that is fine if thats the way it is, but I don't know if I should "allow" him to push her around, or if I should tell him NO so he learns to be more polite.

I mean, having a pecking order is one thing, but being pushy is another thing. I feel that he should be told not to take toys or demand them…if not by her then by me. What do you think? He has no problem listening to me. They both know 100% I am the pack leader. Or should I just let them work it out on their own, only stepping in if it escalates?

Thanks for reading!
Sue (and Sugar)

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Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Dutchringgirl » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:50 am

Sugars Mom wrote:So I guess its official…Sugar has a brother. Prancer is 7 months old now, a Whippet mix from Mexico. I've adopted him by taking over his vet fees for treating his dermadex mange (non contagious).

He is such a silly dog, but very good….listens so well. I can totally relate to Lisa'a stories about Thalie just looking at Sadie with a dignified look, or "what are you doing?" look, lol. They get along pretty well, and Sugar seems happy with the company…most of the time. He is totally the pesky little brother! Its funny. Its like a train here now, anywhere I go now, lol, me then 2 dogs following behind.

dutchringgirl wrote:when you have the doggie train, you cant stop quick or there will be the doggy pileup.
I do have questions for those of you with 2 dogs.

Do you correct them if they try to act dominate over the other?

Things the pup does with Sugar that I wonder if I should correct or not are:

When the pup wants the bed/toy/bone that Sugar has he will first give her the eye, sussing it out, then walk over to her. She ignores him. Then he walks up and over her, standing over top of her. Sometimes she will growl at him to leave her alone, but usually she jumps out of the way, dropping the toy/bone or leaving the bed for him which he happily takes over. Other ways he "demands" the toy/bed/bone is giving her a sharp bark and she gives it up.
dutchringgirl wrote:Sadie does the exact same thing to Thalie, Thalie will have a bone and Sadie wants that one, note, there are 5 other bones in the immediate vicinity, Sadie will hover and thalie will ignore her, then Sadie will bark, and thalie will leave the bone. I dont allow that, I tell Thalie to go get the bone and Sadie to be quiet.
There are lots of toys to go around, but you know how it is, whatever the other one has always looks way better…at least to Prancer. I have never seen Sugar try to take something from him, except when trowing the ball. She will not let him get the ball if I am throwing it for her, and he is learning to respect that, but there are still the disagreements from time to time. They are learning to take turns to get the ball which has been working really well.

He still loves to bite her legs and she does fine most of the time with blocking his annoying bites or pinning him down when he won't listen to her protests, but I wish there was a way to get him to learn to play nicer with Sugar instead of annoying her….I suppose he will figure it out eventually if he really want to play with her. Unless he is trying to annoy her…?
dutchringgirl wrote: I dont bother with the annoying stuff, Sadie can annoy Thalie all she wants, its up to Thalie to let Sadie know when she has had enough.
And then, after annoying her, he goes over and lays with her, not in a way to take over, but for the company and cuddles. Its cute. Sometimes she is not impressed and other times she cuddles into him too.

Obviously she is the submission one of the two, and that is fine if thats the way it is, but I don't know if I should "allow" him to push her around, or if I should tell him NO so he learns to be more polite.

I mean, having a pecking order is one thing, but being pushy is another thing. I feel that he should be told not to take toys or demand them…if not by her then by me. What do you think? He has no problem listening to me. They both know 100% I am the pack leader. Or should I just let them work it out on their own, only stepping in if it escalates?
dutchringgirl wrote:I only step in when it gets really ugly
Thanks for reading!
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by LyonsFamily » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:02 am

Oh congrats on getting the second dog! 7 months is a good age. At least you won't be in that puppy stage for too long. Just imagine an 8 week old! My brother just adopted a 9 month old Alaskan Malamute and she spent a few days for a board and train with me and Odin before he could get her transported up to him and she was giving some back off warnings and moving away from Odin in the beginning because he's a bit of a tornado, but at the end of the week she started actively seeking him out in the house. She got very upset that I wouldn't put her crate back in my room to let her sleep near him her final night here. I just was not up for another night with a sleepless puppy.
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Re: puppy annoying older dog

Post by Stacy_R » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:38 pm

Congrats on the puppy!! I didn't read every line of every post, so forgive me if I repeat... Being someone who fosters, I understand your frustration....puppies can be especially tedious!!!
The most important thing right now is space. And Sugar is trying to ask Prancer to respect hers. Space doesn't always have to equate to submission or dominance...it can also be a behavioral and pressure thing. Below is an excellent blog on how to introduce a new dog into a household. It was written mostly for people who work in rescue and foster, but it applies to all households. I know Prancer has already been there, but there is no rule that says that you can't kind of start over. Also, each dog (Sugar and Prancer) should have their own place (crate, bed, etc) where each can go and know that they won't be bothered. Each of my 3 dogs has a crate and another place (I call it "base" at my house...kind of like when you were a kid playing hide and seek...when you got to base, you were safe) that equals personal space. They can either go there on their own, or can be placed there by me (and if a put them there, they can only leave when I release them). It can be used to settle things down, but should NEVER be used as punishment...base, place, crates should always be positive.

As far as taking toys, bones, beds...I have found that it is much easier to modify that behavior if you can catch it before it happens and redirect. If Sugar has a toy, and you can tell Prancer is going to try to take it, just simply call him over and get him interested in another toy. This will take time, but it works.

And dominance of any sort is not allowed at my house...by anyone...my dogs or foster. If it was, my 6 lb min pin would rule the roost (he tries...and tries...and tries). Dominance can evolve into resource guarding and other unwanted behaviors...so I redirect whenever possible.

Just my thoughts...I have 3 dogs...3 different breeds...and this seems to work for me. I am sure you will find your own formula that will be a mix of everyone's advice. :)

Good luck and happy puppy-ing!!!

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