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Feet question and awkward puppy stage

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Dree_19
Puppy
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:41 pm
Tell us about yourself: Sporting a 3 pack on New England's coast.

Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Dree_19 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:23 pm

So not surprisingly, my vet can only compare West to a GSD as she hasn't seen a DS yet in her practice. My question is about his feet- He has had large splayed paws pretty much since 3 months old. And his front wrists seem to be a bit weak. All around seems to be getting awkward and not very strong on his feet. He has a high back leg prance too. Vet said looks like an awkward puppy, no orthopedic issues or pain. Sent her some videos for neurologist to look at, but she doesn't think there is anything to that as he is very strong everywhere else. He's just not very fast or nimble. Breeder agrees with vet- thinks to let the lanky long leg puppy stage pass and keep an eye for any pain or other developmental issues.

Anyone have similar experience? Or had a pup that took a while to figure out his legs? 4 month old brother GSD is stronger, faster and jumps around like a kangaroo in comparison. Thought it would be the other way around. He just finished teething- read that could have something to do with it.
"West" (Vrijheid's Xtreme DOB 4/9/17)
"Easton" (DDR GSD DOB 5/18/17)
"Chase" (Yorkanian?)
RIP Rocco & Lia GSD

Dutchringgirl
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Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
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Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Dutchringgirl » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:29 pm

can you get us some picturs? Sadies front legs were crooked a bit from being in a crate as a pup too much, she was a rescue. but they are straight now. Cant say she is too coordinated though :lol: :lol:

not sure about the high leg prance. How old again? Did you have xrays?
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4867
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Dutchringgirl » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:30 pm

can you get us some picturs? Sadies front legs were crooked a bit from being in a crate as a pup too much, she was a rescue. but they are straight now. Cant say she is too coordinated though :lol: :lol:

not sure about the high leg prance. How old again? Did you have xrays?
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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DaHawaiianDS
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Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:07 pm
Tell us about yourself: Proud owner of Kapena (DS), Shorty (Senior Dachshund), and Ember (dsh cat)

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by DaHawaiianDS » Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:58 am

Kapena grew too fast, right at 4 mos, and couldn't figure out his legs. He's getting better, but occasionally trips down stairs, etc. I think it's a gangly too big for his britches DS puppy thing.
Proud Pack Mama of Shorty (Doxie, IVDD Senior), Ember (DSH Dilute calico once feral), and Kapena (DS puppers, snarky back talker extraordinaire)

Dree_19
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:41 pm
Tell us about yourself: Sporting a 3 pack on New England's coast.

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Dree_19 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:35 am

Every pic on my phone is lol large of a file. I know this is counterproductive but don't know how else to post. One or two I've posted worked but not sure how. Anyway, by looking at a pic it's not as visible. More like when he's moving around or trotting. The splayed foot/toes is while standing, but I'm also used to the tight cat like foot of the GSD so maybe dutch have a wider paw? I guess that's what I'm trying to find out. Almost like he's spread his toes. The awkwardness is usually when he's moving around quickly or running- he's not too fast. No X-rays yet because vet thinks he's too young to go under uncesessarily. And pups this age are usually loose in the joints so we could get a false positive. She said since his extensions are all good, he's in no pain, there is no slipping of any joints, it's probably an awkward puppy stage. I've just never seen this bedore in my other 4 GSD. Pano, yes, but not the funny gait and definitely not the lack of speed and agility at this puppy age.
"West" (Vrijheid's Xtreme DOB 4/9/17)
"Easton" (DDR GSD DOB 5/18/17)
"Chase" (Yorkanian?)
RIP Rocco & Lia GSD

TimL_168
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Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by TimL_168 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:51 pm

Endeavor's paws are compact. All of my other dogs through the years have had very wide feet. My hybrid, especially. She would keep he toes tight(still a big foot) in the house, but on rocks or snow she'd splay them out on the way to the ground. Btw, that big footed hybrid was by far the most agile creature I've ever worked with.
X rays are pointless before 2 years if your looking for bone fitting. Well...maybe if something is HORRIBLY wrong, you'd see it.
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

TimL_168
Training Dog
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by TimL_168 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:54 pm

Dree_19 wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:35 am
Every pic on my phone is lol large of a file.
Try downloading imigur.
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

Joxgirl
Training Dog
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Tell us about yourself: Brought a Dutch Shepherd into our lives.
Location: Southern California

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Joxgirl » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:26 pm

I will take a picture of Rogues feet today and post. I don't see any issues with hers. I think her toes stay pretty much together.
Saralee
Rogue (Dutch Shepherd)-19 weeks old.
Phoenix (Lab rescue) -10 y/o
Charley (Malti-Poo; rescue)-4 y/o

Dree_19
Puppy
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:41 pm
Tell us about yourself: Sporting a 3 pack on New England's coast.

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Dree_19 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:52 pm

TimL_168 wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:51 pm
Endeavor's paws are compact. All of my other dogs through the years have had very wide feet. My hybrid, especially. She would keep he toes tight(still a big foot) in the house, but on rocks or snow she'd splay them out on the way to the ground. Btw, that big footed hybrid was by far the most agile creature I've ever worked with.
X rays are pointless before 2 years if your looking for bone fitting. Well...maybe if something is HORRIBLY wrong, you'd see it.
Thats just it! His paws are very wolfy in how the toes splay like he's trying to get traction! The weak back legs are getting better, but Im still going to peruse with vet some more. Most dutch owners that have seen him at training/bitework class say it looks like awkward puppy just trying to fit into his long legs.
"West" (Vrijheid's Xtreme DOB 4/9/17)
"Easton" (DDR GSD DOB 5/18/17)
"Chase" (Yorkanian?)
RIP Rocco & Lia GSD

Tyler Durden
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:00 am
Tell us about yourself: I have always had german shepherds but I am new to dutch shepherds. I hope to get a new pup shortly and look forward to learning and sharing my experience.

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Tyler Durden » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:00 pm

How old is he? It usually takes a while for them to figure out their legs.

Steve Gossmeyer
Training Dog
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:43 pm
Tell us about yourself: Schutzhund helper and trainer I own and work two Dutchies
Location: Long Island

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Steve Gossmeyer » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:28 pm

Dree_19 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:52 pm
TimL_168 wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:51 pm
Endeavor's paws are compact. All of my other dogs through the years have had very wide feet. My hybrid, especially. She would keep he toes tight(still a big foot) in the house, but on rocks or snow she'd splay them out on the way to the ground. Btw, that big footed hybrid was by far the most agile creature I've ever worked with.
X rays are pointless before 2 years if your looking for bone fitting. Well...maybe if something is HORRIBLY wrong, you'd see it.
Thats just it! His paws are very wolfy in how the toes splay like he's trying to get traction! The weak back legs are getting better, but Im still going to peruse with vet some more. Most dutch owners that have seen him at training/bitework class say it looks like awkward puppy just trying to fit into his long legs.
Dree I just looked through your IG he has weak pasterns in the front... elevate his food when feeding so he has to leant forward to eat as well as run him on sand... unfortunately this may not work and you may have a dog with weak pasterns his whole life! The splayed toes comes from the pasterns being weak... it's a genetic issue that can sometimes be corrected but most times not... my 9 year old girl had this issue her whole life and now she's got some arthritis but other than that she's fine! Sucks but nothing you can really do

Dree_19
Puppy
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:41 pm
Tell us about yourself: Sporting a 3 pack on New England's coast.

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Dree_19 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:15 pm

Steve Gossmeyer wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:28 pm
Dree_19 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:52 pm
TimL_168 wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:51 pm
Endeavor's paws are compact. All of my other dogs through the years have had very wide feet. My hybrid, especially. She would keep he toes tight(still a big foot) in the house, but on rocks or snow she'd splay them out on the way to the ground. Btw, that big footed hybrid was by far the most agile creature I've ever worked with.
X rays are pointless before 2 years if your looking for bone fitting. Well...maybe if something is HORRIBLY wrong, you'd see it.
Thats just it! His paws are very wolfy in how the toes splay like he's trying to get traction! The weak back legs are getting better, but Im still going to peruse with vet some more. Most dutch owners that have seen him at training/bitework class say it looks like awkward puppy just trying to fit into his long legs.
Dree I just looked through your IG he has weak pasterns in the front... elevate his food when feeding so he has to leant forward to eat as well as run him on sand... unfortunately this may not work and you may have a dog with weak pasterns his whole life! The splayed toes comes from the pasterns being weak... it's a genetic issue that can sometimes be corrected but most times not... my 9 year old girl had this issue her whole life and now she's got some arthritis but other than that she's fine! Sucks but nothing you can really do
Yup, I noticed this in the last couple months. Until about 3 months old he had compact feet and straight pasterns. I will be talking to my vet this week if there is any therapy to maybe help strengthen it a bit now that he's still young. Ugh, not good.
"West" (Vrijheid's Xtreme DOB 4/9/17)
"Easton" (DDR GSD DOB 5/18/17)
"Chase" (Yorkanian?)
RIP Rocco & Lia GSD

Dree_19
Puppy
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:41 pm
Tell us about yourself: Sporting a 3 pack on New England's coast.

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Dree_19 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:16 pm

Just talked to vet. So I'm switching him off the large breed puppy to the adult kibble. Orijen LBP to Tundra. The Tundra has less protein, higher Glu/Cond which will help the joints, and am adding vit C. All this hopefully will help strengthen him up a bit while he's still growing. I mix their kibble with a raw grind that has meat, organs, and bone. Maybe there was just too much calcium and protein in his diet and that didn't help. Plus, it presented while he was teething. All are points my vet said we should consider, while strengthening his body by running on the beach (thanks Steve) and keep him off slippery surfaces. That's about all we can do and hope for the best. I'll keep y'all posted!
"West" (Vrijheid's Xtreme DOB 4/9/17)
"Easton" (DDR GSD DOB 5/18/17)
"Chase" (Yorkanian?)
RIP Rocco & Lia GSD

Dree_19
Puppy
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:41 pm
Tell us about yourself: Sporting a 3 pack on New England's coast.

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Dree_19 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:32 am

Update- Didn't realize Tundra was only sold in Canada. Anyway, I've fully transitioned them all to raw. I've fed raw beofre with another dog that couldn't tolerate any kibble. I followed the most common advice to switch cold turkey and this was definitely the best way for all 3! Not a single digestive issue. Started West on a high G/C, and Ester C supplement. As the days progress, his awkwardness is less and less, and he is getting stronger in the rear. We are just wait and see according to vet. She still thinks it will all even out once he gets through this growth stage. Feeding him a raw diet will regulate the growth, and prevent Easton from going through the same. Wish I had done it from the beginning, at least much sooner.
"West" (Vrijheid's Xtreme DOB 4/9/17)
"Easton" (DDR GSD DOB 5/18/17)
"Chase" (Yorkanian?)
RIP Rocco & Lia GSD

Steve Gossmeyer
Training Dog
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:43 pm
Tell us about yourself: Schutzhund helper and trainer I own and work two Dutchies
Location: Long Island

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Steve Gossmeyer » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:01 pm

Dree_19 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:32 am
Update- Didn't realize Tundra was only sold in Canada. Anyway, I've fully transitioned them all to raw. I've fed raw beofre with another dog that couldn't tolerate any kibble. I followed the most common advice to switch cold turkey and this was definitely the best way for all 3! Not a single digestive issue. Started West on a high G/C, and Ester C supplement. As the days progress, his awkwardness is less and less, and he is getting stronger in the rear. We are just wait and see according to vet. She still thinks it will all even out once he gets through this growth stage. Feeding him a raw diet will regulate the growth, and prevent Easton from going through the same. Wish I had done it from the beginning, at least much sooner.
My dogs all do best on raw! It’s really the way to go if you can afford it

Dree_19
Puppy
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:41 pm
Tell us about yourself: Sporting a 3 pack on New England's coast.

Re: Feet question and awkward puppy stage

Post by Dree_19 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:00 pm

Steve Gossmeyer wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:01 pm
Dree_19 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:32 am
Update- Didn't realize Tundra was only sold in Canada. Anyway, I've fully transitioned them all to raw. I've fed raw beofre with another dog that couldn't tolerate any kibble. I followed the most common advice to switch cold turkey and this was definitely the best way for all 3! Not a single digestive issue. Started West on a high G/C, and Ester C supplement. As the days progress, his awkwardness is less and less, and he is getting stronger in the rear. We are just wait and see according to vet. She still thinks it will all even out once he gets through this growth stage. Feeding him a raw diet will regulate the growth, and prevent Easton from going through the same. Wish I had done it from the beginning, at least much sooner.
My dogs all do best on raw! It’s really the way to go if you can afford it
Haven't heard of a dog not doing good on raw yet! It was just a time and quantity thing for me. I've always had 3 dogs at the same time. Gets pretty time consuming with 3 kids as well! It's round the clock feeding in this house :pint:
"West" (Vrijheid's Xtreme DOB 4/9/17)
"Easton" (DDR GSD DOB 5/18/17)
"Chase" (Yorkanian?)
RIP Rocco & Lia GSD

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