Dutch Shepherd Forum

Tennessee3 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:06 pm Based on the pups age, you're asking a question that's split into two camps.
Group 1 will say Yes, you can tell what a dog's going to be by that age and I wouldn't trust him to be a PP dog.
Group 2 will say No, you can't tell what a dog's going to be by that age and if he's willing to get on the sleeve that bodes well.

There's also a secondary debate in your question (with a rough correspondence to the above split but not 100%) with some people thinking a dog should respond on the sleeve to any helper & the other side thinking the foundation work should be established by a single trusted helper to get the dog exactly the way you want it, before you increase difficulty by using different helpers.

Personally I fall into camp 2 and think hormones, mental maturity, learned responses (training) and confidence are too influential of forces to discount and say a 7 month old pup is how he's gonna be (temperamentally).

If it was me I'd relax and continue with training, develop the dogs confidence and drive, let nature make it's changes and see where I was at in a year or so. But I'm of the opinion that friendliness to non-aggressive people isn't a bad thing for a PP owner, and in fact is preferable to a sharper dog as I don't have the same legal protections and recognized respect of personal space that is afforded to a Police Officer & his K9.

Tennessee3 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:06 pm Based on the pups age, you're asking a question that's split into two camps.
Group 1 will say Yes, you can tell what a dog's going to be by that age and I wouldn't trust him to be a PP dog.
Group 2 will say No, you can't tell what a dog's going to be by that age and if he's willing to get on the sleeve that bodes well.

There's also a secondary debate in your question (with a rough correspondence to the above split but not 100%) with some people thinking a dog should respond on the sleeve to any helper & the other side thinking the foundation work should be established by a single trusted helper to get the dog exactly the way you want it, before you increase difficulty by using different helpers.

Personally I fall into camp 2 and think hormones, mental maturity, learned responses (training) and confidence are too influential of forces to discount and say a 7 month old pup is how he's gonna be (temperamentally).

If it was me I'd relax and continue with training, develop the dogs confidence and drive, let nature make it's changes and see where I was at in a year or so. But I'm of the opinion that friendliness to non-aggressive people isn't a bad thing for a PP owner, and in fact is preferable to a sharper dog as I don't have the same legal protections and recognized respect of personal space that is afforded to a Police Officer & his K9.

Steve Gossmeyer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:33 am Let him grow up! People do too much with young dogs... to me people that work young dogs a lot are worried that the dog won't have it at an older age or they don't know behavior enough to see what they have! You said it yourself he needs to mature!!! I'll let a dog sit and just be a dog until he shows me he matured... this is why I waited to start training Yoda till he was almost 4 years old!!! I believe one helper should develop a dog to make it reliable!!! Two many people do different things and have different programs! Stick with your training and when the dog matures you'll have a better understanding! As far as the social aspect goes.. I'd much rather have a confident social dog that will turn on vs one that has to show people how tough he is! To me that's insecurity! Yoda is indifferent to people f**k with him or me and you have a problem but when he was young he was a social butterfly!!! Now he's got my back no one is messing with me around him

Tyler Durden wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:51 am

Steve Gossmeyer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:33 am Let him grow up! People do too much with young dogs... to me people that work young dogs a lot are worried that the dog won't have it at an older age or they don't know behavior enough to see what they have! You said it yourself he needs to mature!!! I'll let a dog sit and just be a dog until he shows me he matured... this is why I waited to start training Yoda till he was almost 4 years old!!! I believe one helper should develop a dog to make it reliable!!! Two many people do different things and have different programs! Stick with your training and when the dog matures you'll have a better understanding! As far as the social aspect goes.. I'd much rather have a confident social dog that will turn on vs one that has to show people how tough he is! To me that's insecurity! Yoda is indifferent to people f**k with him or me and you have a problem but when he was young he was a social butterfly!!! Now he's got my back no one is messing with me around him

So the ears back, and tale wagging, and falling on his back with the belly up isn't a sign of submissiveness? He does this when people give the "ohh my god what a cute little boy" in a baby voice. He has never shown signs of fear around people. I just thought that there are certain early signs that I should look for, I'll just chalk it up to him not maturing yet...heck he still hasn't lifted his leg to pee.

centrop67 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:07 pm I seem to recall seeing a cartoon where a dog is commanded to protect against an attacker, and in the cartoon the dog says to the handler "but he doesn't have that sleeve thing on his arm."

I couldn't find it, but I am sure someone else here has seen it.

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:56 pm

centrop67 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:07 pm I seem to recall seeing a cartoon where a dog is commanded to protect against an attacker, and in the cartoon the dog says to the handler "but he doesn't have that sleeve thing on his arm."

I couldn't find it, but I am sure someone else here has seen it.

its funny because its true. When you are training for fun, the dog will only bite if there is something on the arm or body. For the police dogs, they will train to bite skin.

Now, on the other hand. One day while driving trough town, there was a guy in a big puffy donut suite and Thalie went ballistic, I had to close the window or she would have jumped out and bit him.

Steve Gossmeyer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:13 pm

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:56 pm

centrop67 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:07 pm I seem to recall seeing a cartoon where a dog is commanded to protect against an attacker, and in the cartoon the dog says to the handler "but he doesn't have that sleeve thing on his arm."

I couldn't find it, but I am sure someone else here has seen it.

its funny because its true. When you are training for fun, the dog will only bite if there is something on the arm or body. For the police dogs, they will train to bite skin.

Now, on the other hand. One day while driving trough town, there was a guy in a big puffy donut suite and Thalie went ballistic, I had to close the window or she would have jumped out and bit him.

I never have this issue! But I select dogs that will bite someone! Yoda know the difference between ipo and being a real ppd! When you have good genetics it doesn't matter! He's never done anything but ipo his whole life but there's been a few situations where he's tried to bite people acting stupid around me! And in the car forget about it lol

Tyler Durden wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:03 am

Steve Gossmeyer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:13 pm

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:56 pm

its funny because its true. When you are training for fun, the dog will only bite if there is something on the arm or body. For the police dogs, they will train to bite skin.

Now, on the other hand. One day while driving trough town, there was a guy in a big puffy donut suite and Thalie went ballistic, I had to close the window or she would have jumped out and bit him.

I never have this issue! But I select dogs that will bite someone! Yoda know the difference between ipo and being a real ppd! When you have good genetics it doesn't matter! He's never done anything but ipo his whole life but there's been a few situations where he's tried to bite people acting stupid around me! And in the car forget about it lol

So, my breeder did the hidden sleeve test with both my pups parents and they bit. He made serious eye contact with them, made a loud noise and a threatening gesture with his body and they bit with no hesitation. BUT, just 10 seconds before that he had random people come up to the dog and pet them and the dogs were very social and happy. It just pisses me off when people go in to pet my dog without my permission, and I need him to be on alert.

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:56 pm

centrop67 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:07 pm I seem to recall seeing a cartoon where a dog is commanded to protect against an attacker, and in the cartoon the dog says to the handler "but he doesn't have that sleeve thing on his arm."

I couldn't find it, but I am sure someone else here has seen it.

its funny because its true. When you are training for fun, the dog will only bite if there is something on the arm or body. For the police dogs, they will train to bite skin.

Now, on the other hand. One day while driving trough town, there was a guy in a big puffy donut suite and Thalie went ballistic, I had to close the window or she would have jumped out and bit him.

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:26 pm there are harnesses that you can get that reaD "DO NOT PET"

Sadie ususally starts giving people the eye when they approach but even if they ask I say no, or ill just blurt out " do not pet them" I dont care what they think, they are stupid