Dutch Shepherd Forum

Kitsune is 5 months now...she is smart and will do almost anything for a ball or hot dog bite. She knows sit, down, heel (getting into the position only), come...and a few other things. I have been dreading heel and stay, these seem to be the hardest LOL. She has never worn a choke chain and does not respond well at all to more physical/hands on training...but she is a little flighty the couple of times I have tried to work on heel without a collar and leash. So I was wanting to get some ideas or advice on the best ways to work on heeling and stay. Thanks!

The Michael Ellis DVD on heeling is my favorite. It's long, but there's so much in even the first 20 minutes it's worth it. If you get a bow wow flix subscription, you can watch a bunch of dog training DVDs for a great price.

I like to teach heeling from the position (which you already have) and then some 2 feet on bucket work for hind end awareness and then I use walls and ring gates to add the forward move. I'm taking the Fenzi Academy online heeling games (as is Christie, she's giving all 4-H obedience instructors a free spot). It starts in 2 days, so I'm hoping to have some feedback and learn things there. She does use what she calls the "pocket hand" and Michael Ellis has something similar called a different name, so I'm thinking it'll be along the lines of his stuff.

As for stay, it's just a duration thing and will strengthen as your puppy grows. If you've already taught sit, you've taught a sit stay, just start delaying the mark and reward. You can easily build up the duration in a distraction free environment and then move outside, etc. Proofing is where corrections come in. They don't have to be collar corrections, but could be removal of reward, resetting the dog, ending the game.

Thanks, I will look into some videos. Love the bucket and along a wall ideas.

I second rear end awareness before the actual moving heel. Taught my guy how to get into position but moving was all types of crazy. Went back and worked on rear end awareness, then coupled that with getting into position from the board (we had graduated from the bucket) we were using, then from the board to moving along the wall. I used a leash once we were moving, but it was all slack, just so I could corral him a bit better.

Are you wanting an attention heel or just a stay by me heel?

Same thing for the stays - I built them into all my commands. Started off with immediate reward for action, then it was 5 seconds, 10 seconds, 15 seconds, etc. I used a bridge ("good") to help with longer times. So I would ask him to sit, 15 seconds would pass, "good", then 15 seconds, and "yes!" for release. Or if he was looking like he may break I would say "good" and he would focus again.

Let us know how the Fenzi Academy is Stephanie! I was looking into that but wasn't sure if it was really worth it since I have a bowwow flix membership.

Owned-By-Hendrix wrote: Let us know how the Fenzi Academy is Stephanie! I was looking into that but wasn't sure if it was really worth it since I have a bowwow flix membership.

I sure will! I've taken a few classes there since it started. I was in the very first nosework class and it's a big part of my curriculum for group nosework classes that I teach. I've also taken tracking, which I liked, and her Boogeyman class which I thought was a big waste of money, even at the $65 bronze and it turned me off to the academy for a while. The instructor that that class has very different views than me on training/re-activity and aggression and I know a few other working dog folk that didn't like the class either. This heeling class is the 1st one I'll have done since Boogeyman, but it was offered free, so I'm trying it.

Thanks for the help guys. I hope to title her in the IPO world, so I am guessing I will need an attention heel...which is totally new to me. She is very attentive...but is 5 months old, so sometimes (read ALL the time LOL) her excitement makes it hard for her to stay still. She is smart and very willing, I'm sure in a more experienced trainers hands she would be a dream to train. I just hope I don't screw her up.
I have watched a couple Micheal Ellis youtube vids...I really like him and his methods. I was already doing some of it...like the bridge and release words, but it is nice to watch them and learn more.

From what little I know about IPO it's all about precision and matching the picture they paint for you. So when training the attention heel it's about really working those perfect, EXACT, speedy positions and keeping the enthusiasm up.

As a sort of side activity, an IPO trainer was telling me to get H (this is gonna sound wrong) between my legs and have him look up at me. Ideally his head would be at my crotch looking straight up. Reward reward reward. Slowly work up to walking like that. What it does is help strengthen the neck muscles of having their head up in that fantastic attention heel shape, without stressing it with the head turn that you need. No clue how well it actually works as H and I lost attention in doing it, especially versus just working on the attention heel position slowly. If you're working with Les you may want to ask him about foundations for IPO - sport OB is slightly different from household OB (with the release word/toys being used almost every training session/etc) although honestly most trainers will tell you to have a household set of commands and sport commands so they dog know when it can be "lazy" and I don't prescribe to that idea. As long as you keep the rules and rewards the same on/off field it shouldn't matter.

Thanks...I will be seeing Les soon, and will for sure get some more pointers. I like having this board too, you guys are a lot of help.

I like the between the leg idea, I will have to try that. I just started trying to teach her to weave through and around my legs...ouch she wants that ball, and my fingers are acceptable collateral damage LOL.

Les had me start out with hotdogs in my left hand and having Enzo follow on my left side. Constantly praise for following and eye contact. Give the command sit when you stop and reward.

For getting into the heel position, have the food in your left hand. Bring your left hand back and make a circle away from your body as you step back with your left foot.

Your dog should go wide following the food then bring your left hand so that it ends on your left hip as you take a step foward bring your left foot where it previously was. This should make the dog stop at your hip. Give the sit command and reward when eye contact or the position is held.

Hope that's clear as mud.

We ended up having Enzo do a front sit and he goes around me into his heel. He's a big dog and this seems better.