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Avoiding distractions

Obedience (non-protection) discussion. We have broken the two apart.
Raven
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Raven » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:28 pm

Take this for what it could mean for you:

Thor has a very high prey drive and is extremely animal aggressive. Since Day One, part of our work has been on his impulse control, which is much, much improved, but not-so-much so in face-to-face animal encounters, so I spent $5 at Below-Zero on a weasel ball. It's only used at great distances so that he all he knows is some animal is moving....

Prong collars push his drive, so during this exercise, he is on flat collar. (Discovered his drive is pushed on prong when I put it to the test--if anyone has any experiences with this, please share!!)

There is no treat with a high enough value for him when it comes to other animals (he ignores it or spits it out if he absent-mindedly takes it), yet this exercise has had some merit. No one exercise accomplishes the whole goal of training, but when the components are put together with consistency and reinforcement....
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Raven » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:20 pm

Okay...just wrapped up another Weasel exercise and the boy made a liar out of me (regarding a comment in my last post).

It was a rough beginning, but better than others--and he "miraculously" took high-value treats with "full knowledge" and ate them. (This is huge.)

Took him out afterward, where he's always fully charged, but he did an excellent job of obeying, even around the sites he'd seen a moving target.

I tape a lot of work sessions...this one's a keeper!
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Sugars Mom » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:53 pm

LOL, but its ok if they make a liar out of us with positive results, eh?

Thats great to hear! Its always nice when we see our hard work pay off : )

Sugar is doing amazing with the squirrel situation. She more or less looks at them with interest but nothing like before. I took my camera out with me today to try to get her running and jumping sideways when they run by as it was hilarious, but she wasn't doing that anymore at all! She looks at them, and gets into a more alert state, but doesn't get all excited. And she almost always listens to me right away to come back when I call her (and looks at my face -mouth?? ). Wa-hoo!!

Now what she does is sit under the tree while they are eating their nuts and try to catch the bits they drop...its kinda funny to watch.
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Raven » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:13 pm

She's quite the little changling! You have a real sweetie on your hands. I'm glad.
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:21 pm

Great to hear!!!
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Marjolein » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:22 am

ok, seems like dogs with "ADD" also have strong prey drive as Ivil is also VERY fond of wildlife... :dschick:

I worked on this with her for years, starting as a little puppy. I knew both her mom and grandma love to go huntin' so I started with saying "no" to hunting anything at the age of 8 weeks. Even chasing a leaf blown by the wind was a NO-NO, replaced by chasing balls and Dingo.
This drive turned out to be so strong, she was completely unattainable, felt no pain, heard nothing. So than what? I tried long leash with pring, but she felt no pain, so she would flip over and smack back on the ground, only to get up as quick as she could to go after it again. I have tried everything, throwing bottle with some rocks in it, trowing a little can with rocks in it, anything to break up the focus. Nothing worked. So my only option was "hearing aid"...by Dogtra. It works! but I am very aware of how to, and when to use it. So far it has given me some peace in walking with her. No longer this vision of her running into the street, getting killed and killing a family of 3 in the proces because they hit a tree trying to avoid her.
I am very well at spotting wildlife first after 4 years of this, and she will come 100% on command. If I'm sleeping(...), and she sees it first, she starts to tremble but 95% of the time she won't chase it, but will freeze, I than call here and she will come, looking over her shoulders a couple of times, but she won't chase it.

But...now she must come into heat, and suddenly she loves pain again, and does go. That's when the hearing aid comes in to remind her, but I can never walk her without it, it still is not 100% sure to me. Guess she just loves pain :| and wildlife :?
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Raven » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:09 pm

Marjolein...when you speak of "hearing aid," are you referring to an e-collar/shock collar/remote collar?
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Marjolein » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:36 pm

Raven wrote:Marjolein...when you speak of "hearing aid," are you referring to an e-collar/shock collar/remote collar?
ok, I admit I stole the joke from Judith... :roll:
Yes, I am :mrgreen:
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Raven » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:03 am

Have never used one, though I certainly see the value with some dogs and some situations (as opposed to Joe Schmoe "training" his dog with one: "I don't have time or the desire to learn how to train, so let's slap this on him.").

In the beginning, someone suggested that I learn how to properly use one for Thor, but like you, I'm opting to exhaust all other options, work toward obliterating the behavior...but if his drive during animal aggression is pushed further on-prong (this is when he can re-direct), my thoughts don't lean toward e-collaring. Yes? No?
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by dutchringdog » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:44 am

I have used the E collar, I think its a good tool, like any, used properly. No, I dont agree it should be used like the Joe Schmoe training, or used lightly. I used to use it for Ring Sport for the "Outs" Then I used it for Thalie when we would go hiking off leash. I would only use the vibrate when we hiked so when I called she came if she got a bit stubborn about it, (squirrel, chipmunk).
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by dutchringdog » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:44 am

I have used the E collar, I think its a good tool, like any, used properly. No, I dont agree it should be used like the Joe Schmoe training, or used lightly. I used to use it for Ring Sport for the "Outs" Then I used it for Thalie when we would go hiking off leash. I would only use the vibrate when we hiked so when I called she came if she got a bit stubborn about it, (squirrel, chipmunk).
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Marjolein » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:48 pm

I agree you should see it as a last option, and than learn all about it, than try it on yourself (I did) than put it on your dog and USE IT WISELY!
Even a dog that seemed to react to nothing, like Ivil, get's "stirred" for a second by the e-collar, that is when your previous training comes in and recall the dog.
I have never used it for any other issue, because I believe with Ivil those can also be solved in other ways. I never use it because it is "easier", I'm very aware of that.
I do NOT recommend using one for problems just like that, but in some cases, there is no other way.
Ow, funny, I have never used in on the training field, just on hikes ;)
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Dutchringgirl » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:06 pm

That was something I did not like about the training of Ring Sport, The E-collar was used Alot! I didnt like that, I saw some dogs that didnt want to out have two collars.
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Marjolein » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:17 pm

Dutchringgirl wrote:I saw some dogs that didnt want to out have two collars.
Those dogs have poor handlers ;)
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Schlussdibusti » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:28 pm

I've seen two weekends ago a mal with one e-collar around his neck and another one with tie wraps around the base of his tail.
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Marjolein » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:55 pm

Schlussdibusti wrote:I've seen two weekends ago a mal with one e-collar around his neck and another one with tie wraps around the base of his tail.
why??? :huh:
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by Schlussdibusti » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:52 pm

Marjolein wrote:
Schlussdibusti wrote:I've seen two weekends ago a mal with one e-collar around his neck and another one with tie wraps around the base of his tail.
why??? :huh:
A local dog trainer invited me to his training place where he trains with a small group of people on Saturdays and Sundays (Schutzhund/Ring). He claims, Ivan Balabanov is his mentor and friend and that he is training according to "his" method. So I went. I saw they e-collar neck/tail during their bite work.
Last edited by Schlussdibusti on Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Avoiding distractions

Post by WorkingK9 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:05 pm

Schlussdibusti wrote: I know the judges now want to see the "star gazers" and precision but if it takes this kind of training, I take gladly a 70 score.
You can get that great focus without starving the dog.. just takes a little work.. (and I am not a big "dog must constantly be looking at me" person and I dont work that hard at it LOL) but my Dutchie has a very nice Focus Fuss.. I occassionally use food, but mainly use the ball.
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