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schutzhund? maybe?

KNPV, Schutzhund, Ring, PSA, etc - General Discussion
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Use this forum for general discussion of Protection Sports. Please use the sub-forums for specific issues in the various phases.
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karenz
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Tell us about yourself: My name is Karen and I have a dutch shepherd, Xander, born 6/14/13. He is my second dutch shepherd. My first was Rawly. Even though Xander is my second I still have a lot to learn. That is why I'm here, to learn, get advice, and meet people who love these guys as much as I do.
Location: NC

schutzhund? maybe?

Post by karenz » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:21 am

So I found a woman here who is does schutzhund. I didnt realize there is a schutzhund club about an hour from me. I'm thinking about getting into it. I have never done it and don't know much about it. The woman is going to meet me Saturday to talk to me and meet Xander. She works with gsd. Any pointers on how to know if this woman is trustworthy, knows what she is talking about? I don't want to do ANYTHING to ruin Xander. He is a wonderful dog. And the club is in Fayetteville NC. Has anyone heard anything about it. I want to make sure it's a reputable place.
Karen & Xander

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LyonsFamily
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Re: schutzhund? maybe?

Post by LyonsFamily » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:36 am

I don't have much experience on picking out an IPO club as I'm checking out a few myself and thinking of mainly doing that instead of PSA since club availability is such a problem by me. One thing I will say is make sure the club emphasizes obedience. Also, ask if you can sit in on a few meetings. Many will require you to come and help out before bringing a dog anyway.

Another problem I've been finding is clubs with preference towards GSDs and they can make newcomers with a different breed feel out of place, and sometimes treat the dogs differently. I've started going to the obedience section only for a nearby all-breed club that's with the national working malinois association and they've been very welcome. Of course, I know the two women who started it through a raw feeding co-op I'm in, so I'm not a complete outsider. I haven't joined the club yet, but it's $10 per week for drop ins for the obedience.

I will suggest joining the Working Dutch Shepherd Association group on facebook. Christie, Les, or Asheley, or other members on there might be able to help you out regarding a club. I'm getting my scorebook through them to try Elli at her BH late this fall. They've been able to answer all of my questions, as trivial as they might be. Another thing I did learn is that you don't have to do all three aspects to compete. Many trials allow just obedience, just tracking, obedience and tracking, or obedience and protection, once you've passed your BH. I thought that was a good option since Odin can't do a lot of high level impact with his back anymore and it might be something to look at for Xander if you want to ease into the club getting to know the helpers and what not, without putting him at risk. I'm shooting for a BH with him eventually after working Elli and then he can try out the tracking or obedience only trials and it won't be too much stress on him physically.
Stephanie
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Owned-By-Hendrix
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Re: schutzhund? maybe?

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:18 am

Go with your gut. I don't know too much about finding a good IPO club as I think most clubs require extended participation to realize the hidden truth, but since IPO is mainly a routine (disclaimer: tracking is not counted as a routine) I'd look for a trainer who's mainly positive and not force-based. A lot of IPO trainers can be old school and still work with compulsion based methods (disclaimer: at certain levels you will probably see more corrections that could seem similar to compulsion, but the key is in how they're rewarding the dog for the right behavior). You should be able to sit in on 1-2 sessions before deciding. Ask the trainer what methods/approaches they use, if other members help train/mentor, and pay attention as they work the dogs. Also talk to the club members and ask their opinions.

I'd highly suggest visiting the club, looking on YouTube for IPO trials, and reading through the rule book which outlines the requirements and levels.
Kay
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karenz
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Tell us about yourself: My name is Karen and I have a dutch shepherd, Xander, born 6/14/13. He is my second dutch shepherd. My first was Rawly. Even though Xander is my second I still have a lot to learn. That is why I'm here, to learn, get advice, and meet people who love these guys as much as I do.
Location: NC

Re: schutzhund? maybe?

Post by karenz » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:24 pm

So I was impressed by the woman today. Her gsd is very focused and very obedient. She gave us some things to work on. She said the club in Fayetteville NC is mostly gsd and mals and a couple others like rotts. She said the woman with the rotts has ds but doesn't bring them as much as the rott. That seems odd to me. She said Xander had crazy ball drive. She told me to work on him focusing on me. And to work on him staying when I tell him to sit without actually having give him the stay command. She said when I tell him to sit he should sit and shouldn't move until I release him without saying stay. I'm still feeling it all out but I got a concept of what a focused well behaved dog should be like without watching a video. We are going to meet again in a couple weeks and see how things are going.
Karen & Xander

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Re: schutzhund? maybe?

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:40 pm

Yay! Test it out and have fun with it. Worst case scenario is you and Xander don't like it. You can always try other sports (Mondio and PSA are also fun) too if you want. Keep us updated on your thoughts! IPO is something I've kinda wanted to try with H so I'd be really interested in hearing your thoughts on it!
Kay
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karenz
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Tell us about yourself: My name is Karen and I have a dutch shepherd, Xander, born 6/14/13. He is my second dutch shepherd. My first was Rawly. Even though Xander is my second I still have a lot to learn. That is why I'm here, to learn, get advice, and meet people who love these guys as much as I do.
Location: NC

Re: schutzhund? maybe?

Post by karenz » Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:25 am

:geek: So far I'm having fun working with the things she told me to work on. But... I obviously have a lot to learn. Xander always had a good out but now that I'm building his ball drive which he has a lot of his out isn't so great anymore. It didn't take long for him to get really addicted to his ball. Ball was a fun thing but now it almost seems like a life of death thing for him. And we've only been working on this for a day. I feel like I might be making a mistake as far as having a pet since he was doing so well and well behaved. I like the idea of doing something with him but I'm afraid I don't have the knowledge and experience and will end up making a big mistake. But I do like the challenge. Just don't want to mess him up.
Karen & Xander

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Re: schutzhund? maybe?

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:27 am

Speaking from experience of having my dog semi-messed up via bad training for sport (and by semi-messed up I mean the trainer put too much pressure on him in bite work and H wasn't cool with that) I can say one thing: go with your gut. Sport work is a little different than pet stuff, in the essence of extreme obedience and extreme attention, but as long as you are going slow and making it fun and avoiding extreme pressure, things will go fine. You know your dog, you know when he'll be stressed, and you'll know when to stop.

As for the life and death thing, trust me, I totally understand. If I bring out a tug or a ball H is about to piddle himself in excitement (the ball involves jumping and dancing) and he'll literally scream if I don't give it to him RIGHT NOW. Not in frustration but in want. The key is honing that drive and teaching him he will ALWAYS get his reward, no matter how many things I ask, he will get that reward.

How is Xander acting with the ball now versus before?
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

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karenz
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Tell us about yourself: My name is Karen and I have a dutch shepherd, Xander, born 6/14/13. He is my second dutch shepherd. My first was Rawly. Even though Xander is my second I still have a lot to learn. That is why I'm here, to learn, get advice, and meet people who love these guys as much as I do.
Location: NC

Re: schutzhund? maybe?

Post by karenz » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:06 pm

Owned-By-Hendrix wrote:How is Xander acting with the ball now versus before?
Before this day the ball was a fun game of fetch. He was very excited about playing fetch. After literally one day of working with him to WANT the ball and using it as a reward he is doing the jumping dancing and yes screaming for the ball. He is super focused on it. What I have to decide and what I am concerned about is my mom and my niece and nephew. My mom is in her 70 and she keeps Xander during the day while I work. They play alot of fetch. And my niece and nephew are 6 and 9. They like to play fetch with him too. So is this going to cause Xander to jump and dance and knock one of them down. If he can learn to differentiate between fetch and working that is fine. But my priority is for him to be a good pet where they can handle him.
Karen & Xander

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Re: schutzhund? maybe?

Post by Raven » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:55 pm

karenz wrote:to work on him staying when I tell him to sit without actually having give him the stay command.
Implied stay. Not hard. He's smart and you work with him a lot. :D
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

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karenz
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:59 am
Tell us about yourself: My name is Karen and I have a dutch shepherd, Xander, born 6/14/13. He is my second dutch shepherd. My first was Rawly. Even though Xander is my second I still have a lot to learn. That is why I'm here, to learn, get advice, and meet people who love these guys as much as I do.
Location: NC

Re: schutzhund? maybe?

Post by karenz » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:12 pm

Raven wrote:Implied stay. Not hard. He's smart and you work with him a lot. :D
Xander has to sit and stay before he gets food, before going in or out a door, and before going in or out of my car. He also will sit and stay when I throw his ball. He won't break the stay until I tell him OK. He is already doing well with the implied stay except for throwing the ball. That will take some extra practice, especially since I have increased his ball drive. I love doing obedience work with him. I'm very unsure of some of this other stuff.
Karen & Xander

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Re: schutzhund? maybe?

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:44 pm

That was a similiar concern I had with H. I was told to build a sort of routine: a certain collar goes on, a certain word is used, and a certain toy is pulled out. For H, it's putting on his Fursaver with a certain leash we only use for sport OB, I say, "wanna work? Let's go work!" Very excitedly as we come onto the field or wherever, and he has a specific ball we use. It sounds weird but he knows the difference between bite work, sport OB, and house. Everyone knows this certain ball is never to be used for fetch - all this thousands of others are okay. And H knows the highest, most prize ball is his sport ball.

Another thought is working his sport stuff in a certain location so he knows "work" or whatever you choose is at a location. As you build his drive you will see an increase of excitement for the ball but if you start showing him what I call "house restraint" versus "sport restraint" he'll learn when to use his drive.
Kay
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Re: schutzhund? maybe?

Post by Raven » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:21 pm

I have complete faith in you and Xander. If you think about it, it's probably harder on you (you're worried) than it will be for him to comply. This is just an extension of the foundation you've laid. :D

I got Thor, my god of thunder who had no impulse control, to control his impulses--to stay when super-juiced to run after the ball--and even stop and turn back mid-bolt when I'd call "Leave it!" I don't compete, but if I got this boy to do that, no problem with Xander.

Relax. You're doing great. You know what they say about a journey of a thousand miles....
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

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Re: schutzhund? maybe?

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:26 pm

Sharon is right - just like in higher levels of regular obedience this is about building and controlling that drive. When you start looking at the other sports and see dogs being called off decoys after a 50 foot dash and they're only 2 feet away, you'll see the level of impulse and drive control you can train. It's really amazing! So you'll do fine! Just set out clear indicators for Xander so he understands what's expected and when.
Kay
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(Tyson's Soul Twin)

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