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Ds/mal crosses?

General "standards" discussion not specifically related to the coat variety
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blacklabel
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Ds/mal crosses?

Post by blacklabel » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:00 pm

What's everyones opinions about these crosses? I see that they do it ALOT in Europe to produce working dogs first and foremost. Does it seem to be a good compliment to the breeds to cross them?

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Mobil
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Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by Mobil » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:00 am

You'd be kind of hard pressed to find a DS in the US that didn't Mal in its lineage.
Dusty,

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blacklabel
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Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by blacklabel » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:22 am

I get that, this DS female is a Holland import bred to a LE Mal.

Was just curious why this cross is so popular

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Owned-By-Hendrix
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Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:14 pm

In Holland they're considered the same dog, especially if KNPV lines. If two DS have a litter and half are fawn, the fawns as Malx and the brindles DSx. In certain lines you can see a difference in personalities/temperaments from fur color, which is why we generally see a difference between the two here in the US, but for the most part people in Holland claim it's just fur color. Breed standard came up after FCI diverged from KNPV. It's not so much that the cross is popular, it's that in Holland they're also breeding for working capabilities and not so much looks. If the dog happens to have the right drives/lineage for a breeding they want to do, it doesn't really matter if it's dutch or mal.

Now in the US, crosses again are chosen for working abilities and temperaments, depending on the dogs being bred and their breeding goals. For example, if a DS female is fairly low key but has a ton of hunt drive, and there's a DS male with high hunt drive, or a mal male with high prey drive and civilness, depending on what you want to accomplish, you could either have very strong scent work dogs (narcotics, etc) or more dual-purpose/sport dogs. This is a very liberal generalization. Also lineage has a lot to do with it too - inbreeding, line breeding, and maybe they want a certain dog's genes in the pups to get a new line going. It all depends. I hope that helps answer your question!
Kay
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blacklabel
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Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by blacklabel » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:36 pm

Helps a little, I knew that in Holland they are considered one breed basically. I was just thinking out loud

Mark77
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Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by Mark77 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:29 pm

I don't think they think of them as two sides of the same coin exactly, otherwise they wouldn't have purpose bred them going back several decades with mostly the same breed. The Mal's also tend to be a little smaller from what I've seen and a little leaner on average while the Dutchies are a little more stocky built. They do breed them back and forth once in a while- mostly because they just want to diversify the line and add whatever trait they were looking for.

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Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by hubcap » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:54 am

Owned-By-Hendrix wrote:In Holland they're considered the same dog, especially if KNPV lines. If two DS have a litter and half are fawn, the fawns as Malx and the brindles DSx. In certain lines you can see a difference in personalities/temperaments from fur color, which is why we generally see a difference between the two here in the US, but for the most part people in Holland claim it's just fur color. Breed standard came up after FCI diverged from KNPV. It's not so much that the cross is popular, it's that in Holland they're also breeding for working capabilities and not so much looks. If the dog happens to have the right drives/lineage for a breeding they want to do, it doesn't really matter if it's dutch or mal.
This matches my understanding exactly. My DS is an import from the Netherlands. His mother was a fawn colored Malinois. The kennel he came from doesn't care about color, just ability.

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cordeliandemon
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Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by cordeliandemon » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:30 pm

here in Ireland ive never seen people refer to fawn dutches as malinois or vice versa. ive only heard it said that theyre the same dog from friends visiting from Florida (and the conversation was along the lines of a police man having to shoot his malinois because it bit him and wouldnt release his arm, i was far from impressed)

from what ive seen a dog with one parent mal and one dutch will be called a dutch/malinois mix, regardless of colour, mals also seem to be VERY noticeably smaller than the dutches here and known as more of a live wire.

if that dutch/mal was bred back to a "full" dutch again that new generation or more commonly the one following seems to nolonger be considered a mix and just referred to as a dutch shepherd again.
it seems to just depend on where/who you talk to. (not talking about pedigrees completely here, more how ive seen dogs advertised for stud/sold and how theyre talked about. i dont recall seeing a dutch on bloedlijnen refered to as anything other than "x Hollandse Herder")
Cordelia -
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Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:49 pm

blacklabel wrote:. I was just thinking out loud
Don't do that too much, your brain will ooze out your ears.
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Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by LisaV » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:09 pm

My dog is fawn coloured so looks like a mal which is some way back in his lineage but both parents are brindle coloured DS's. There were two fawn colours in the litter of 12. I'm familiar with both breeds. In England the DS isn't a kennel club recognised breed anyway. Anybody who knows the mal breed thinks that's what my dog is and now I don't bother to correct them anymore. I know what he is and what a clever loving boy he is too.

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Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by XanderK9 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:51 pm

Same here. Have a female fawn black masked Dutch shepherd. Everyone thinks, tries telling me it's a Mal. Sire was a nearly black DS (some leg brindle) Dam was a light brown brindle. There are Mals here and there in the lines. Kinda funny being able to refer to her as either breed depending on the situation.

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