Ds/mal crosses?

General "standards" discussion not specifically related to the coat variety
Post Reply
blacklabel
Just Whelped
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:06 pm
Tell us about yourself: Truck driver looking to get in to DS dogs

Ds/mal crosses?

Post by blacklabel »

What's everyones opinions about these crosses? I see that they do it ALOT in Europe to produce working dogs first and foremost. Does it seem to be a good compliment to the breeds to cross them?
Mobil
Training Dog
Posts: 528
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:21 pm
Tell us about yourself: Rescued a dumped DS puppy from the freeway and found his littermate in a nearby shelter two weeks later.

Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by Mobil »

You'd be kind of hard pressed to find a DS in the US that didn't Mal in its lineage.
Dusty,

Mobil & Turbo (4/14, probably DS)

Image
blacklabel
Just Whelped
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:06 pm
Tell us about yourself: Truck driver looking to get in to DS dogs

Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by blacklabel »

I get that, this DS female is a Holland import bred to a LE Mal.

Was just curious why this cross is so popular
User avatar
Owned-By-Hendrix
Training Dog
Posts: 942
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:40 am
Tell us about yourself: Dutch Shepherd Owner.

Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix »

In Holland they're considered the same dog, especially if KNPV lines. If two DS have a litter and half are fawn, the fawns as Malx and the brindles DSx. In certain lines you can see a difference in personalities/temperaments from fur color, which is why we generally see a difference between the two here in the US, but for the most part people in Holland claim it's just fur color. Breed standard came up after FCI diverged from KNPV. It's not so much that the cross is popular, it's that in Holland they're also breeding for working capabilities and not so much looks. If the dog happens to have the right drives/lineage for a breeding they want to do, it doesn't really matter if it's dutch or mal.

Now in the US, crosses again are chosen for working abilities and temperaments, depending on the dogs being bred and their breeding goals. For example, if a DS female is fairly low key but has a ton of hunt drive, and there's a DS male with high hunt drive, or a mal male with high prey drive and civilness, depending on what you want to accomplish, you could either have very strong scent work dogs (narcotics, etc) or more dual-purpose/sport dogs. This is a very liberal generalization. Also lineage has a lot to do with it too - inbreeding, line breeding, and maybe they want a certain dog's genes in the pups to get a new line going. It all depends. I hope that helps answer your question!
Kay, H, and The SO
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)
blacklabel
Just Whelped
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:06 pm
Tell us about yourself: Truck driver looking to get in to DS dogs

Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by blacklabel »

Helps a little, I knew that in Holland they are considered one breed basically. I was just thinking out loud
Mark77
Training Dog
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:19 am
Tell us about yourself: Own a Mal and a Dutchie.

Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by Mark77 »

I don't think they think of them as two sides of the same coin exactly, otherwise they wouldn't have purpose bred them going back several decades with mostly the same breed. The Mal's also tend to be a little smaller from what I've seen and a little leaner on average while the Dutchies are a little more stocky built. They do breed them back and forth once in a while- mostly because they just want to diversify the line and add whatever trait they were looking for.
hubcap
Just Whelped
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:08 am
Tell us about yourself: My Dutch Shepherd lets me think I am in charge.

Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by hubcap »

Owned-By-Hendrix wrote:In Holland they're considered the same dog, especially if KNPV lines. If two DS have a litter and half are fawn, the fawns as Malx and the brindles DSx. In certain lines you can see a difference in personalities/temperaments from fur color, which is why we generally see a difference between the two here in the US, but for the most part people in Holland claim it's just fur color. Breed standard came up after FCI diverged from KNPV. It's not so much that the cross is popular, it's that in Holland they're also breeding for working capabilities and not so much looks. If the dog happens to have the right drives/lineage for a breeding they want to do, it doesn't really matter if it's dutch or mal.
This matches my understanding exactly. My DS is an import from the Netherlands. His mother was a fawn colored Malinois. The kennel he came from doesn't care about color, just ability.
User avatar
cordeliandemon
Training Dog
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:35 am
Tell us about yourself: owner of a male Dutch Shepherd and female Alaskan Malamute
Location: Ireland

Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by cordeliandemon »

here in Ireland ive never seen people refer to fawn dutches as malinois or vice versa. ive only heard it said that theyre the same dog from friends visiting from Florida (and the conversation was along the lines of a police man having to shoot his malinois because it bit him and wouldnt release his arm, i was far from impressed)

from what ive seen a dog with one parent mal and one dutch will be called a dutch/malinois mix, regardless of colour, mals also seem to be VERY noticeably smaller than the dutches here and known as more of a live wire.

if that dutch/mal was bred back to a "full" dutch again that new generation or more commonly the one following seems to nolonger be considered a mix and just referred to as a dutch shepherd again.
it seems to just depend on where/who you talk to. (not talking about pedigrees completely here, more how ive seen dogs advertised for stud/sold and how theyre talked about. i dont recall seeing a dutch on bloedlijnen refered to as anything other than "x Hollandse Herder")
Sadhbh (pronounced "Sive", its an irish name) -
Demon (dutch shepherd)
Koda (alaskan malamute)
Sidney (collie/springer spaniel)- R.I.P
User avatar
Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 5692
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA

Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by Dutchringgirl »

blacklabel wrote:. I was just thinking out loud
Don't do that too much, your brain will ooze out your ears.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
ImageImage
LisaV
Puppy
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:33 pm
Tell us about yourself: Married with 4 kids + 2 dogs (1 DS, 1 GSD) +2 cats

Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by LisaV »

My dog is fawn coloured so looks like a mal which is some way back in his lineage but both parents are brindle coloured DS's. There were two fawn colours in the litter of 12. I'm familiar with both breeds. In England the DS isn't a kennel club recognised breed anyway. Anybody who knows the mal breed thinks that's what my dog is and now I don't bother to correct them anymore. I know what he is and what a clever loving boy he is too.
XanderK9
Just Whelped
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:50 am
Tell us about yourself: Retired K9 handler of a DS worked in Connecticut USA in a urban city
One of the few DS ever successfully worked in Connecticut police K9 history thus far.
Oldest DS worked in Ct. (14). Old man still hits like a bull (he's retired now)
Raised and trained by myself and my breeder to CPWDA certification standards.
Currently own 3 DS. Nice to know all of you!

Re: Ds/mal crosses?

Post by XanderK9 »

Same here. Have a female fawn black masked Dutch shepherd. Everyone thinks, tries telling me it's a Mal. Sire was a nearly black DS (some leg brindle) Dam was a light brown brindle. There are Mals here and there in the lines. Kinda funny being able to refer to her as either breed depending on the situation.
Post Reply