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Another Question
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Please post at your own risk. Know that this is not a true conformation show, and that the comments made are based on pictures only and might not be a good reflection of what could be seen in real life. Pictures need to be owned by the poster or used with verifiable permission of the owner. The dog in the submitted picture should be owned OR bred by the poster, OR you should be able to show that you have explict permission from the dogs owner. You may be asked for verification . The admin reserves the right to remove posts when permission cannot be verified. No rights can be derived from these posts.
- Christie M
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Another Question
I was taught that Dutch Shepherds (short haired, anyway) come in 2 colors - gold brindle and silver brindle, with the silvers possibly not really existing.
In other breeds, when the tan is more predominant than the black, they call it reverse brindle. In French Bulldogs, this is an accepted and used term. Is it technically correct to use it in Dutch Shepherds to describe a dog like Ziva?
Also, ideally should the "Mask" extend all the way up the face beyond the eyes?
In other breeds, when the tan is more predominant than the black, they call it reverse brindle. In French Bulldogs, this is an accepted and used term. Is it technically correct to use it in Dutch Shepherds to describe a dog like Ziva?
Also, ideally should the "Mask" extend all the way up the face beyond the eyes?
Christie Meyer
http://www.northwoodsk9.com
http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
http://www.thunderhawkcanine.com
Be proud of the things that you have taught your dog. Be humbled and grateful for all of the things that your dog has taught you. - Unknown
http://www.northwoodsk9.com
http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
http://www.thunderhawkcanine.com
Be proud of the things that you have taught your dog. Be humbled and grateful for all of the things that your dog has taught you. - Unknown
- k9katet
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Re: Another Question
Great questions that I've wondered about too. Looking forward to hearing the answers.
Heather Sather & Mazikeen
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http://www.k9katet.com
- alspyce
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Also have a horse-old quarter horse mare-32.
Can't wait for all the snow to get gone! Spring is coming too slow this year! - Location: Corinth, New York
Re: Another Question
When the base color is Tan, with the black causing the brindle stripes, I always assumed that "Reverse Brindle" would be the dogs who are very dark with the Tan appearing to be causing the stripped effect. (I think also sometimes called "Black Brindle.")
Where's Judith/Marjolein for this one?
Where's Judith/Marjolein for this one?
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." Anatole France
Chris Carlton/Lyric
Chris Carlton/Lyric
- vneerland
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Re: Another Question
I like the 'possibly' not existing. I am convinced that it (genetically) does not exist. But the breed standard mentions it, so........ Silver brindle does not exist, genetically, but it is used, erroneously.Christie M wrote:I was taught that Dutch Shepherds (short haired, anyway) come in 2 colors - gold brindle and silver brindle, with the silvers possibly not really existing.
It is a bit like what I said about silver brindle above. It may be an accepted term, but that does not make it correct. Reverse brindle would describe the appearance of a dog that is different from the norm (in that breed) I have heard it used to describe black dogs with what appears to be tan striping. And you say that in french bulldogs, it describes a dog that is tan with black stripes.In other breeds, when the tan is more predominant than the black, they call it reverse brindle. In French Bulldogs, this is an accepted and used term. Is it technically correct to use it in Dutch Shepherds to describe a dog like Ziva?
Also, ideally should the "Mask" extend all the way up the face beyond the eyes?
In DS's the norm (the ideal) would be a golden dog with a black stripe. Ziva fits that norm.
If there were such a thing, then a reversed brindle in the DS, would be a black looking dog with a tan looking stripe. But there is no such a thing. Reversed brindle is a label of (sorry!) ignorance. Genetically, brindle is, in all breeds, an expression of the K (black) locus. The stripes on any brindle dog, regardless of breed, regardless of appearance, are dark (read: black) and not tan. The tan parts are just the underlying locus (Agouti) showing through. While some breeds use that terminology, our breed is not one of them, and I personally don't think it would be advisable to start a trend that leads the non educated reader to believe that they are looking at something different than the other brindle expressions (dark vs light, light vs dark) It is simply the width of the dark (black) stripe that changes the appearance, but they are still black stripes on a tan background, with a wider stripe leaving less tan to show than a narrow one.
Mask is the appearance of black on the head. Genetically, a mask can be as little as black hair around the lips, and as much as black spreading all the way above the eyes. There are few gold brindle DS's that show a very large mask and while the full dark head is pretty, it is not an consideration when it comes to evaluation in the show ring. Prensence of a mask is preferred and in my personal opinion, more is more, but full extending masks on a golden brindle dog (like Ziva) are fairly rare.
Maybe Marjolein has some mask-expression pictures of us to look at.
Judith Van Neerland Dutch Shepherds
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Re: Another Question
Thank you so much Judith!!
I remember the conversation about silver brindle, but I couldn't remember the specifics.
I like the way you break it down. Lets use terms that fit the genetics of what is actually going on. I appreciate the explanation!!
I remember the conversation about silver brindle, but I couldn't remember the specifics.
I like the way you break it down. Lets use terms that fit the genetics of what is actually going on. I appreciate the explanation!!
Christie Meyer
http://www.northwoodsk9.com
http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
http://www.thunderhawkcanine.com
Be proud of the things that you have taught your dog. Be humbled and grateful for all of the things that your dog has taught you. - Unknown
http://www.northwoodsk9.com
http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
http://www.thunderhawkcanine.com
Be proud of the things that you have taught your dog. Be humbled and grateful for all of the things that your dog has taught you. - Unknown
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Re: Another Question
hmm, masks, personally I do not have a lot of mask pics...
I think in masks the major fault is for people, even judges, to not look close enough.
Look at these 2 beasts, Ivil and Dingo:
who has more mask?
well?
Ivil!
nope, Ivil is darker overall, Dingo has less brindle, so appears to have less of a mask. In fact Ivil has a small mask that barely reaches to halfway her snouth, as you can see in this pic:
another typical mask:
Amber
LH DS without mask:
On "reversed brindle"
2 different shades of brindle to compare, Ivil (in the back) has way more brindle than Dingo (foreground), so Ivil will look darker. To some this translates into a black dog with brown stripes, which is like Judith explained not the case.
I think in masks the major fault is for people, even judges, to not look close enough.
Look at these 2 beasts, Ivil and Dingo:
who has more mask?
well?
Ivil!
nope, Ivil is darker overall, Dingo has less brindle, so appears to have less of a mask. In fact Ivil has a small mask that barely reaches to halfway her snouth, as you can see in this pic:
another typical mask:
Amber
LH DS without mask:
On "reversed brindle"
2 different shades of brindle to compare, Ivil (in the back) has way more brindle than Dingo (foreground), so Ivil will look darker. To some this translates into a black dog with brown stripes, which is like Judith explained not the case.
- susanna
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Re: Another Question
May be a little foolish question,but why like my dog there are registered dogs for colour "brindle".
When there are gold and silver brindle dogs, so what makes the dog just term "brindle".?
When there are gold and silver brindle dogs, so what makes the dog just term "brindle".?
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Sugar looks like a miniature Dutch Shepherd with floppy ears, and has every ounce of DS traits in her little body!
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Re: Another Question
I love the pictures of Lvil and Dingo, Thalie and Sadie are opposites, Thalie is like Lvil, a darker brindle and Sadie Is lighter. Isnt the Lighter brindle a Red Brindle?
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
- Christie M
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Re: Another Question
What registry?susanna wrote:May be a little foolish question,but why like my dog there are registered dogs for colour "brindle".
When there are gold and silver brindle dogs, so what makes the dog just term "brindle".?
Christie Meyer
http://www.northwoodsk9.com
http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
http://www.thunderhawkcanine.com
Be proud of the things that you have taught your dog. Be humbled and grateful for all of the things that your dog has taught you. - Unknown
http://www.northwoodsk9.com
http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
http://www.thunderhawkcanine.com
Be proud of the things that you have taught your dog. Be humbled and grateful for all of the things that your dog has taught you. - Unknown
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Re: Another Question
hesitant to answer for someone else, but probably local license. every local government agency [and vet] i have run into here uses ''brindle'' for a color description in their REGISTRATION records. so probably nothing ''official'' in our dog world.
Susanna, is that a correct interpretation of the situation?
Susanna, is that a correct interpretation of the situation?
John & DS rscus TRACE DOG,99-12; fstr7yoCain,8-9/12; Xander(3/12)11/12-2/13; SAKIMA (b.4/12)from11/12; TxXANDER (b.2/13)from5/13; direct from CherCar: TRACER (b.5/4/13). http://www.youtube.com/sakimadoggy http://www.youtube.com/tracesobaka
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Re: Another Question
Thanx, the guestion pops up cause theres "gold brindle" and so on within puppies parents.
Even so,think my dog belongs "gold brindle" category, but now I know answer to this also.
Even so,think my dog belongs "gold brindle" category, but now I know answer to this also.
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Re: Another Question
Regarding silver brindle and whether or not it exists....would Marjolein's pic of the long haired dutch not be considered silver? Compared to the others which are much darker gold or rust colored it seems very silver.
Oops, just realized this thread was 2 years old. Sorry about that!
Oops, just realized this thread was 2 years old. Sorry about that!
Evan - Best friend and father figure to Andraste, my 4yr old female DS and Homer (GSD)
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Re: Another Question
My dog Asia has a very light brindle coloring, almost red like with tons of stripes. Riddick is very dark brindle, has longer fur and fuzzy babboo ears- which is his single greatest feature.