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Teaching a Release, help!

Discussion of Obedience in the various sports
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JennieLeigh
Puppy
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:33 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am 31, from Alberta, Canada, and I just adopted an 8-10 month old male Dutch shepherd from my local SPCA. I'm really looking forward to getting to know him and learning how to work with him to bring out the very best of his potential.

Teaching a Release, help!

Post by JennieLeigh » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:52 pm

Fender LOVES the flirt pole. Absolutely loves. And he's got that bite and hold thing down pat, but he refuses to let go of the rope. I tried trading for a high value treat, but he could care less about treats when the flirt pole comes out. Which is actually the same problem I have trying to keep him calm around other dogs during walks and such, he absolutely refuses to take a treat so I have nothing to focus his attention.

How do you convince a dog to let go of something when you have zero things to trade it for? It's really frustrating.

Dutchringgirl
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Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Teaching a Release, help!

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:59 pm

I put my hand in their mouth and make them open it, then when they open it, praise them.


*moved to Obedience*
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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centrop67
Site Admin
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Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:42 pm
Tell us about yourself: Accidental DS rescuer. Human companion to Radar and Leela. Owner of the site, looking to make this the top site for information and discussion on Dutch Shepherds.
Location: Cutler Bay, FL, USA

Re: Teaching a Release, help!

Post by centrop67 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:39 am

A little thumb pressure on the tongue gets Radar to release when he's being stubborn.

He knows the drop it command, but is inconsistent, so when I do have to use this trick, I praise the heck out of him when he lets go.

I have been bit, however, (a few times) when I try this and he readjusts on whatever he's holding. :hic:
Michael
The pack -> Radar (DS), Leela (Mal?), and Karen (Human) - Cutler Bay, FL USA
RIP: Tequila and Snickers
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

karenz
Training Dog
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:59 am
Tell us about yourself: My name is Karen and I have a dutch shepherd, Xander, born 6/14/13. He is my second dutch shepherd. My first was Rawly. Even though Xander is my second I still have a lot to learn. That is why I'm here, to learn, get advice, and meet people who love these guys as much as I do.
Location: NC

Re: Teaching a Release, help!

Post by karenz » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:36 am

I'm curious to hear these responses. Ever since I started building his ball/tug drive he will NOT let go. We slower down the drive and started working on "out" again. He is doing great with out until we take out the "special" ball"tug. Then he will not let go. I have tried treats, raw steak, hamburger, everything. I tried pressure on his tongue, everything. He is NOT letting go. He has way more strength and will power than I do. He is super stubborn when it comes to letting go of his special ball.
Karen & Xander

Mobil
Training Dog
Posts: 528
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:21 pm
Tell us about yourself: Rescued a dumped DS puppy from the freeway and found his littermate in a nearby shelter two weeks later.

Re: Teaching a Release, help!

Post by Mobil » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:42 am

I've always used the lip over the teeth trick for stubborn givers when 'drop it' doesn't work. I reach over the muzzle and press the upper lip slightly against their teeth. It makes them open their mouth.

(Turbo is a horrible giver. She's going to be the most work.)
Dusty,

Mobil & Turbo (4/14, probably DS)

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Owned-By-Hendrix
Training Dog
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Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:40 am
Tell us about yourself: Dutch Shepherd Owner.

Re: Teaching a Release, help!

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:45 am

I'd go back to basics. Work with the drop it command like he's first learning then practice on everything. Spoons, balls, stuffed animals, food, anything and everything. You can even practice with the flirt pole (not moving) and work your way up from gentle twitch to slow motion to full speed. If he's still having a hard time you may have to ask yourself if he's being possessive or if he's not understanding letting go is part of the game.

Michael Ellis has a nice way of teaching the "out" or "drop it" command with tugs. The SECOND the tug is released the game begins again. No asking for sits or pauses. Literally teeth off BAM it starts moving again (usually with a release cue). Suddenly the dog is getting faster with the out.

Another thing technique I've seen is negative/positive stimulus if they don't let go. This can be anything from the prong collar to ecollar pulse to pushing on their tongue combined with getting what they want. A friend's Mal wouldn't come off the bite and he had to be pronged with a "no" to mark the wrong choice; the second he came off on command he was given the bite immediately. Usually this is used when the dog knows the command and is being stubborn or not listening. But I would make sure Fender knows the command and is solid on it before trying this just in case he isn't sure.
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

dogbyte
Puppy
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Tell us about yourself: I have been owned by German Shepherd Dogs for over 20 years. I have come to the dark side with my first Dutch Shepherd. Rossi is an almost 11 month old female from Land of Oz kennel. I have a 10 year old GSD and an 8 year old.

Re: Teaching a Release, help!

Post by dogbyte » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:04 pm

I prefer the Ellis type method...causing pain to out can make dogs like my GSD Jaden more determined to hold on or a weaker dog to not want to bite...
cathy,jaden,gracie & rossi with xara, chance and zoey forever snuggled deep inside my heart

XanderK9
Just Whelped
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Tell us about yourself: Retired K9 handler of a DS worked in Connecticut USA in a urban city
One of the few DS ever successfully worked in Connecticut police K9 history thus far.
Oldest DS worked in Ct. (14). Old man still hits like a bull (he's retired now)
Raised and trained by myself and my breeder to CPWDA certification standards.
Currently own 3 DS. Nice to know all of you!

Re: Teaching a Release, help!

Post by XanderK9 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:42 pm

I have NEVER used compulsion to teach outs on my Dutchies. Have a reliable immediate verbal out including on my PSD (ret). When playing tug go "dead" cease all motion. Pup will pull,push, growl whatever to try and get the game going again. Plant yourself firmly. No movement at all. Wait him out as long as is needed. Eventually pup will start to loosen grip. As he does so calmly say "out" in a kinda drawn out way. The moment all his teeth are off give your bite command IMMEDIATELY! No hesitation. Waiting for re-bite comes a bit down the road. Repeat until the connection is firmly made in his head that out does not mean punishment or end of fun. Simply a momentary pause.

The out is a obedience command IMHO. Let go of what's in your mouth immediately the first time I say so no matter how intense the play and or fight is. If the foundation for how he learned this is done in a motivational way then you will have a quality reliable out the rest of his life. Best of luck :D

Steve Gossmeyer
Training Dog
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Location: Long Island

Re: Teaching a Release, help!

Post by Steve Gossmeyer » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:47 pm

XanderK9 wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:42 pm
I have NEVER used compulsion to teach outs on my Dutchies. Have a reliable immediate verbal out including on my PSD (ret). When playing tug go "dead" cease all motion. Pup will pull,push, growl whatever to try and get the game going again. Plant yourself firmly. No movement at all. Wait him out as long as is needed. Eventually pup will start to loosen grip. As he does so calmly say "out" in a kinda drawn out way. The moment all his teeth are off give your bite command IMMEDIATELY! No hesitation. Waiting for re-bite comes a bit down the road. Repeat until the connection is firmly made in his head that out does not mean punishment or end of fun. Simply a momentary pause.

The out is a obedience command IMHO. Let go of what's in your mouth immediately the first time I say so no matter how intense the play and or fight is. If the foundation for how he learned this is done in a motivational way then you will have a quality reliable out the rest of his life. Best of luck :D
This!!! Exactly this! To me there is no other way

centrop67
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1321
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:42 pm
Tell us about yourself: Accidental DS rescuer. Human companion to Radar and Leela. Owner of the site, looking to make this the top site for information and discussion on Dutch Shepherds.
Location: Cutler Bay, FL, USA

Re: Teaching a Release, help!

Post by centrop67 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:49 pm

I like to see old posts come back to life like this. Especially, when it points out my own mistakes.

I can tell you that the latest posts by Steve and XanderK9 are the correct way to go.

My approach from my response 2 years ago was horrible and has produced a sub par release from Radar.

I get to see if I can teach an old dog new tricks now.
Michael
The pack -> Radar (DS), Leela (Mal?), and Karen (Human) - Cutler Bay, FL USA
RIP: Tequila and Snickers
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Teaching a Release, help!

Post by Dutchringgirl » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:39 am

Steve Gossmeyer wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:47 pm
XanderK9 wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:42 pm
I have NEVER used compulsion to teach outs on my Dutchies. Have a reliable immediate verbal out including on my PSD (ret). When playing tug go "dead" cease all motion. Pup will pull,push, growl whatever to try and get the game going again. Plant yourself firmly. No movement at all. Wait him out as long as is needed. Eventually pup will start to loosen grip. As he does so calmly say "out" in a kinda drawn out way. The moment all his teeth are off give your bite command IMMEDIATELY! No hesitation. Waiting for re-bite comes a bit down the road. Repeat until the connection is firmly made in his head that out does not mean punishment or end of fun. Simply a momentary pause.

The out is a obedience command IMHO. Let go of what's in your mouth immediately the first time I say so no matter how intense the play and or fight is. If the foundation for how he learned this is done in a motivational way then you will have a quality reliable out the rest of his life. Best of luck :D
This!!! Exactly this! To me there is no other way
Agreed. One thing though that I may have not read correctly. When movement stops, the dog should still want to bit. Lack of movement should not mean for the dog to stop. I may have misunderstood?
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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