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E-Collars

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Owned-By-Hendrix
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Re: E-Collars

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:12 pm

Stephanie this. Is. Awesome! You totally clearly explained the reason for every vague reason I've heard for specific e-collar placements. You rock!!!!
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

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LyonsFamily
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Re: E-Collars

Post by LyonsFamily » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:53 pm

Owned-By-Hendrix wrote:Stephanie this. Is. Awesome! You totally clearly explained the reason for every vague reason I've heard for specific e-collar placements. You rock!!!!
Well I'm glad someone could follow me. It's so much easier to just have a stuffed dog and show it in person.
Stephanie
'Odin' NV PTA Odin of Another Kingdom RL1
'Elli' Drawing Our Own Constellations RL1 CGC CGCA

505Fire
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Tell us about yourself: Firefighter father of one child. Currently have an older malamute wolf cross and an older pit mix. Really thinking about a Dutch for our next puppy.

Re: E-Collars

Post by 505Fire » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:10 pm

LyonsFamily wrote:This is long, bear with me. :pint:

Two receivers can also be used on one collar when you want to change the place of the correction for different commands without moving the collar. The way electronic stim works is it contracts the muscles, so when you're teaching a down, for example, you want the stim to be on top. When you're teaching the dog to sit from a down, you want it to be on the bottom of the neck. If you're teaching or proofing these by themselves, 1 receiver is fine. Since I just put the collar on a very low level for an attention command rather than an aversive correction, I keep the collar at the side of the neck at all times and one receiver works for me.

If you're looking for more precise control, for example, you're teaching motion exercises from a distance and you're either teaching with the ecollar using pressure/release, or you're using it for correcting at a slightly higher level, you want to be able to apply pressure in the right direction. You never stim both at the same time, but it allows you to switch back and forth without moving the collar.

It's also very important in bitework if you're working on the out, to have the receiver on the top because the contraction when on the bottom of the neck will actually prevent a dog from opening it's mouth fast enough and it throws off your timing and can mess up a clean out. If you have a dog that chooses to down and guard rather than sit and bark and hold, you may want an extra receiver on the bottom of the collar to correct for that too if you're working off leash during something like a blind search. You can also obtain the same thing with a line and prong for the sit correction, but the collar removes the handler and lets you add distance.

Using 2 receivers separately on the same dog requires really really good timing though and a handler that can multi task and probably isn't something to worry about unless you have a trainer that knows their stuff and suggests it for your particular dog.

Now, if you're looking for an ecollar for aggression or reactivity issues, you might want to consider the Garmin Delta Sport so that you can go hands free in the bark collar mode and improve your timing. (I'm assuming you know what you're doing with an ecollar and you've already concluded that the aggression isn't fear based, of course.)
Wow thank you that was some really great information! Definitely a very good explanation. No the aggression definitely isn't fear based. He has always been extremely dominant with other dogs. It's taken me years to get to where we are. He can actually be around other dogs besides ours now after they have had a cooling off period. I don't really want a bark collar mode because his barking isn't a problem it's just his actually trying to attack other dogs when on leash or small animals when walking out in the hills off leash. He's always been very prey driven which has led to multiple dead raccoons and skunks in our backyard. I just want it to be able to break him off when he goes lunging after some dog/creature. He doesn't typically bark when he does that. The barking is only afterwards when he has been stopped already and is being held off from it.
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Raven
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Re: E-Collars

Post by Raven » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:52 pm

Admittedly, I'm coming into this conversation late, but I did want to ask what type of training you've done thus far (and for how long, and if it's been consistent) in relation to his dog/animal aggression. Have you worked with the triggers?
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

505Fire
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Tell us about yourself: Firefighter father of one child. Currently have an older malamute wolf cross and an older pit mix. Really thinking about a Dutch for our next puppy.

Re: E-Collars

Post by 505Fire » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:45 am

I have just been trying to expose him to other dogs while exercising walking or doing obedience to help keep him distracted then allowing him to interact with them after he stays calm.
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LyonsFamily
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Re: E-Collars

Post by LyonsFamily » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:40 am

505Fire wrote:I don't really want a bark collar mode because his barking isn't a problem it's just his actually trying to attack other dogs when on leash or small animals when walking out in the hills off leash. He's always been very prey driven which has led to multiple dead raccoons and skunks in our backyard. I just want it to be able to break him off when he goes lunging after some dog/creature. He doesn't typically bark when he does that. The barking is only afterwards when he has been stopped already and is being held off from it.
So he's completely silent when he lunges? I've never seen a reactive dog that lunged without making a sound. If that's the case, the bark mode wouldn't work, but I've been very successful with using bark collars on reactive dogs not for barking, but because they all make a sound when they lunge and the bark collars trigger off of vocal cord vibration and sound, so it corrects at the same time as the reaction and has better timing than me trying to hold a leash and fumble with a remote.
Stephanie
'Odin' NV PTA Odin of Another Kingdom RL1
'Elli' Drawing Our Own Constellations RL1 CGC CGCA

505Fire
Just Whelped
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:14 am
Tell us about yourself: Firefighter father of one child. Currently have an older malamute wolf cross and an older pit mix. Really thinking about a Dutch for our next puppy.

Re: E-Collars

Post by 505Fire » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:17 am

Oh he will bark but it's not until after the attempt to get to the other animal/dog and it fails because the leash stops him. For other dogs that's a pretty ingenious idea using the bark collar as a correction tool I just don't think it would work for him.
Brian a Pit Bull/Lab?
Stella Blue a Malamute/Wolf

505Fire
Just Whelped
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:14 am
Tell us about yourself: Firefighter father of one child. Currently have an older malamute wolf cross and an older pit mix. Really thinking about a Dutch for our next puppy.

Re: E-Collars

Post by 505Fire » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:32 am

If you have any other recommendations I would love to hear them!
Brian a Pit Bull/Lab?
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Raven
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Re: E-Collars

Post by Raven » Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:13 pm

505Fire wrote:then allowing him to interact with them after he stays calm.
So he's actually capable of "interacting" with other dogs, not wanting to go for the throats? Is it possible that the behavior he first exhibits is excitement in wanting to "play" with others but is instead reacting to leash pressure?

It just surprised me to learn he CAN interact with other dogs.
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

505Fire
Just Whelped
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:14 am
Tell us about yourself: Firefighter father of one child. Currently have an older malamute wolf cross and an older pit mix. Really thinking about a Dutch for our next puppy.

Re: E-Collars

Post by 505Fire » Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:59 pm

Yeah he has gotten to that point. He originally would go straight for the throats on all dogs. And that's not an exaggeration. He has had to literally be pried off of their throats. But now he has gotten to the point where he will only attempt that if the dog isn't submissive to him. This is of course on dogs that we know not random dogs that we run into. He managed to push my screen door open the other day and went after the neighbors dog and actually just knocked them down and then barked and growled at them and held them on the ground but only because the neighbors dog is very submissive. My dog doesn't really play with other dogs. The most he will do is sniff them when he is calm then he is off to investigate new smells etc. The only other dog that he actually interacts with is my other dog.
Brian a Pit Bull/Lab?
Stella Blue a Malamute/Wolf

Raven
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Re: E-Collars

Post by Raven » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:20 pm

Okay...that paints a better picture.

Take this with a grain of salt, but I like to add to such conversations that corrections (on prong, shock, etc.) in the face of triggers can sometimes exacerbate an aggression issue (fear-based or not). :twocents: :)
Though I can only hope to become the person who my animals believe I am, the things that they have taught me have made me a better human being. ~~~Sharon~~~

505Fire
Just Whelped
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:14 am
Tell us about yourself: Firefighter father of one child. Currently have an older malamute wolf cross and an older pit mix. Really thinking about a Dutch for our next puppy.

Re: E-Collars

Post by 505Fire » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:05 pm

Ok thanks. I will be careful and try to watch for that. It's an attempt. If it doesn't work I will just use it to help strengthen his recall.
Brian a Pit Bull/Lab?
Stella Blue a Malamute/Wolf

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