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Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

General "standards" discussion not specifically related to the coat variety
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Alyssarorvick
Just Whelped
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:55 pm
Tell us about yourself: I'm 15 and own a spunky 5 month old dutchie(:

Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

Post by Alyssarorvick » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:23 pm

So I've finally gotten passed what seems to be the worst of puppyhood. But I am still running into certain problems with my little guy. He is lacking in engagement in training which usually wouldn't be an issue, but when I even try to distract him from smelling grass I run the risk of him getting mouthy with me. we had stopped formal training for awhile to see if it was an anxiety/stress thing and i think it's a really big part of the problem. I hate seeing him so pissed off while training. I'm considered retiring him from a prospect dog if he does not budge after one year. Then he would be able to just be an active pet that will go on hikes and adventures and we will just work on tactile obedience and behaviors. He wouldn't have to worry about all the pressure from bitesports ans agility and he could just be the independent dog he is.

Now, he borderlines handler aggression issues, he is very strong minded and very independent. I can not take any small object from his mouth(even when offered a trade) he pretty much just hates all training except the bitesuit which he also will refuse to let go of on certain occasions. He is not a dog I can push around, and every correction is given with extreme care and cation. And we are both left very frustrated while training. do you guys think it would be best to "retire him", continue to take the baby steps I'm doing or?? Any opinions

*note: I really don't want to rehome him. and yes we have worked with trainers and he has improved from what he used to be, but it still kinda sucks.
Alyssa and Tyson. 6 month old knpv dutch

TimL_168
Training Dog
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

Post by TimL_168 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:36 am

I don't know of any advice I can really give. But, I can give you a point of reference. I got Endeavor at 15 months. She was described as low drive. The truth is, her prey drive is high, and it wasn't working for SAR. She had no focus. She was ALWAYS looking for something to chase& bite.
En's focus has come a long way, but not every day is great. Today, actually, was a pretty bad day. I couldn't get her to focus on scent outside. So, instead of putting her up, I started back at the beginning with boxes in the house. Without distractions, she got back to work and ended the day very well.
This morning, she isn't recalling very well. I'll do more long line work with her this eve. Back to basics; a little refresher. Simple to keep her confident, interested. So, if I were in your shoes, yeah...I'd keep taking those baby steps.
I know there's a guy with some first hand insight on our dogs' sire and how he performed when the guy saw him. I never asked for specifics. I can p.m. you the guys name if you are interested in following up.
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

Alyssarorvick
Just Whelped
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:55 pm
Tell us about yourself: I'm 15 and own a spunky 5 month old dutchie(:

Re: Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

Post by Alyssarorvick » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:52 pm

I actually think I talked to the guy when ty was about five months because Tyson was so pushy but I lost his number so if you could get it to me that would be awesome!!!
Alyssa and Tyson. 6 month old knpv dutch

TimL_168
Training Dog
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

Post by TimL_168 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:09 pm

I don't have a number for the guy. He had just mentioned that Havoc had a session at the club he trains with. Figured he might be able to tell you what he saw. Would you like me to p.m. you here, or on Facebook?
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

Alyssarorvick
Just Whelped
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:55 pm
Tell us about yourself: I'm 15 and own a spunky 5 month old dutchie(:

Re: Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

Post by Alyssarorvick » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:08 pm

Facebook is fine
Alyssa and Tyson. 6 month old knpv dutch

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4567
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

Post by Dutchringgirl » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:48 pm

Alyssarorvick wrote:
Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:23 pm
So I've finally gotten passed what seems to be the worst of puppyhood.
Ha, keep dreaming ;)
Alyssarorvick wrote:
Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:23 pm

But I am still running into certain problems with my little guy. He is lacking in engagement in training


Can you explain a bit what he does that you want more of?
Alyssarorvick wrote:
Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:23 pm
when I even try to distract him from smelling grass
what are you doing to distract him?
Alyssarorvick wrote:
Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:23 pm

I run the risk of him getting mouthy with me. we had stopped formal training for awhile to see if it was an anxiety/stress thing and i think it's a really big part of the problem. I hate seeing him so pissed off while training. I'm considered retiring him from a prospect dog if he does not budge after one year. Then he would be able to just be an active pet that will go on hikes and adventures and we will just work on tactile obedience and behaviors. He wouldn't have to worry about all the pressure from bitesports ans agility and he could just be the independent dog he is.

Now, he borderlines handler aggression issues, he is very strong minded and very independent. I can not take any small object from his mouth(even when offered a trade) he pretty much just hates all training except the bitesuit which he also will refuse to let go of on certain occasions. He is not a dog I can push around, and every correction is given with extreme care and cation. And we are both left very frustrated while training. do you guys think it would be best to "retire him", continue to take the baby steps I'm doing or?? Any opinions

*note: I really don't want to rehome him. and yes we have worked with trainers and he has improved from what he used to be, but it still kinda sucks.
Im getting the feeling you are not being "alpha " enough"

I have worked with many hard dogs and they take time to figure out. he is also at the age of coming into his own , like a teenager.


What happens when he gets mouthy, what was happening just before, and what are you doing just before he gets mouthy?
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
ImageImage

Alyssarorvick
Just Whelped
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:55 pm
Tell us about yourself: I'm 15 and own a spunky 5 month old dutchie(:

Re: Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

Post by Alyssarorvick » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:58 pm

I'm would love for him to try and participate more, which is our main focus rn and it's improving! He often gets distracted by smells like pee or plants. I will bring out food and toys and will even tease him with little to no success. ive resorted to doing one minute sessions where he is super engaged. We also do a longer session after I get home from school. This is where he will get the most pushy and frustrated. If I tell him a command and leave him flustered he will jump up and mouth. I will usually use the dominant dog collar to "choke" him out and tell him to get off, then he will. On days where it's unexpected I just grab is lower jaw and tell him get off and release once he is back out of the way. He will also react if I take a toy that he has stolen, again he gets choked out. I stay calm and fight as little as possible. But still attempt to make it clear that I'm the boss and that it's not ok.


And for his Behavior before hand, his face is tight and tail is up, looks very dominant but idk. I agree I need to be more of a leader figure and have changed lots of things in his life that is making it happen.
Alyssa and Tyson. 6 month old knpv dutch

Steve Gossmeyer
Green Dog
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:43 pm
Tell us about yourself: Schutzhund helper and trainer I own and work two Dutchies
Location: Long Island

Re: Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

Post by Steve Gossmeyer » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:19 pm

Where do you live? Maybe hire a trainer that understands the breed to help you

TimL_168
Training Dog
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

Post by TimL_168 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:45 am

I think Lisa is probably on to something. From what I understand, En was borderline handler aggressive with her old owner. More like a frustrated biter. She's never done anything looks that with me. If I had to guess, it's because I probably carry myself a little differently. The old owner was no slouch-just less authoritative. I don't beat my dogs, but I'm not overly gently with them, either. There might be some very subtle things you could do with your own body language and voice that could have a great impact. It also sounds like he's just being a teenager.
There's some very good info on here about the "alpha roll". Be careful. You don't want to put him in a position where he HAS to make that choice. I try very hard to give a delicate balance of tons of praise, positive experiences and affection with just a sprinkling of authority at critical moments.

Facebook won't let me message you. I'll get to you on here.
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

TimL_168
Training Dog
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

Post by TimL_168 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:57 am

Had another thought:
En is hell to get and keep focus on me outdoors. There's a ton of rabbits around, and she's always looking for them. The only thing that will draw her back to me is her deer tug on the flirt pole. I'll let her chase it for a minute, then call her off. I'll do some OB with a chase on the tug as a reward.
Come to think of it, her hanging up on the recall outside recently might be because I haven't worked her on the flirt pole recently.
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4567
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

Post by Dutchringgirl » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:23 pm

Alyssarorvick wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:58 pm
I'm would love for him to try and participate more, which is our main focus rn and it's improving! He often gets distracted by smells like pee or plants. I will bring out food and toys and will even tease him with little to no success.
teasing is not training, its teasing.


Alyssarorvick wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:58 pm
ive resorted to doing one minute sessions where he is super engaged. We also do a longer session after I get home from school. This is where he will get the most pushy and frustrated.
dont do long sessions for a while
Alyssarorvick wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:58 pm
If I tell him a command and leave him flustered he will jump up and mouth.
your fault in not being clear and leaving him guessing. his jumping and mouthing is him telling you he is frustrated and confused. Do you have kids ?? they are the same, when they are frustrated and confused, look at yourself and see how you gave the command and were you clear? did you follow through.

Alyssarorvick wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:58 pm
I will usually use the dominant dog collar to "choke" him out and tell him to get off, then he will.
I get that but you are reprimanding him for being confused.

Alyssarorvick wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:58 pm
On days where it's unexpected I just grab is lower jaw and tell him get off and release once he is back out of the way. He will also react if I take a toy that he has stolen, again he gets choked out. I stay calm and fight as little as possible. But still attempt to make it clear that I'm the boss and that it's not ok.


And for his Behavior before hand, his face is tight and tail is up, looks very dominant but idk. I agree I need to be more of a leader figure and have changed lots of things in his life that is making it happen.
How I work and train recalls. Put on a looooong line, have a high value reward. Go outside and let him go sniff, recall is NAME _ COMMAND.. wait just a split second, if he does not come, snap the leash, have a short enough hold so you can have contact with him, not a pull or a hard tug, a quik snap to get his attention, then wave the reward and have a dance party, when he gets to you he gets the reward and party. DO that either a gazzilion times or until you see he has had enough.

your command and rewards must be solid and consistent. you only have 3 seconds for the reward so he understands.

When an animal does something that we are questioning, it is often the human who is at fault and we must observe ourselves to see where the mistakes are being made. There is always a reason the animal acts how they act, it is up to us to figure out what we , as humans are doing wrong.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
ImageImage

centrop67
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1074
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:42 pm
Tell us about yourself: Human companion to Radar and Leela
Location: Cutler Bay, FL, USA

Re: Opinions needed... 10 month old Dutch shepherd

Post by centrop67 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:50 pm

Dutchringgirl wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:23 pm
When an animal does something that we are questioning, it is often the human who is at fault and we must observe ourselves to see where the mistakes are being made.
:wtg:
Michael
The pack -> Radar (DS), Leela (Mal?), and Karen (Human) - Cutler Bay, FL USA
RIP: Tequila and Snickers
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

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