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Out vs Give

Obedience (non-protection) discussion. We have broken the two apart.
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TimL_168
Training Dog
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Out vs Give

Post by TimL_168 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:51 am

Anyone have any input on teaching these two separate commands? En came to me with a long list, and among them was "Give". She was relentless on the tug when I got her, and we've done great developing quick obedience on the Out and maintaining drive. But...I kinda gave up on the "Give" (placing in hand) for a while now. I want her to get back into it. It's very useful, and that's what she's all about. Here's the question- should I bring back the Give command with the open palm up, or do you think giving the Out command with the palm up is enough. My gut tells me to keep two defined commands completely separate." Out" should be immediate, no matter how far away she is. Although... I don't think "Give" should be said until the dog is within reach anyway, so out could accomplish the same end. I'm really leaning towards two separate commands. Just curious if anyone else has any pragmatic experience.
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

Steve Gossmeyer
Training Dog
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:43 pm
Tell us about yourself: Schutzhund helper and trainer I own and work two Dutchies
Location: Long Island

Re: Out vs Give

Post by Steve Gossmeyer » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:57 am

Sounds too confusing id stick to out and when you want it in your hand tell the dog out with your palm open like you would give... essentially you are trying to train two commands for the same behavior! Out is out whether it's in my hand or not... having a give and put command is too confusing for you and the dog

TimL_168
Training Dog
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: Out vs Give

Post by TimL_168 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:01 pm

So Out is out-wherever she happens to be, but showing my palm up when she's facing me prompts her to out into my hand. Thanks for the input!
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Out vs Give

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:42 pm

I agree with steve. Its 6 1/2 dozen of the other. Out is drop it like a hot potatoe no matter what and where. out can be in your hand too. Mine have been trained with no commands so if they are close and the hand touches the object in the mouth, they release.

Apport is a good one too, its fetch. So many times when I was biking with Thalie, Id drop something and didnt want to get off my bike and get it. It was a great party trick. I would tell Thalie " apport" and she would pick it up and hand it to me.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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TimL_168
Training Dog
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: Out vs Give

Post by TimL_168 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:22 pm

Out it is. Thanks folks!
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

eden_hillside
Just Whelped
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:41 am
Tell us about yourself: I am an active senior/retired Professional Dog Trainer. I currently own a DS female that will be 2 in Sept. She is not my first Working dog, having owned GSD's (German/ American lines) in the past. My DS is mostly black with very little brindle (color fault). Anyway, I have also owned and titled other breeds; Springers, Brittanys, American Staffordshire, Chihuahua, etc. This DS is not like any dog that I have ever worked with before. The breeder of my DS didn't like her temperament. I hope to learn more about this breed from your forum.

Re: Out vs Give

Post by eden_hillside » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:48 am

My DS will "out" on the sleeve and will deliver the dumbbell to hand and let go of it to hand using the same exact word "out." She had more difficulty learning the hold (not dropping the dumbbell), but that was my fault. As a puppy she would bring a ball and drop it, while I tossed another. The ball tossing created a dropping habit that needed fixing. I just never figured on doing CDX. Since I'm a senior, it's easier under pressure to have just one command. If you and your dog can handle 2 commands, then why not?

TimL_168
Training Dog
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: Hi,
Short and sweet here- I'm a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. I'm looking for a more energetic dog that had the same intelligence and trainability. I'm interested in advice, opinions, and a place to share experiences.
Location: central MD

Re: Out vs Give

Post by TimL_168 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:29 am

It's been a while. I've completely dropped "Give (it)"from her lexicon. She'll "Out" a ball or tug as far away as we train(forty yards or so) just as clean as she'll "Out" the same item into my hand. I need to work on the placing of an item actually into my hand with better consistency, but she's dropping it when she's close to my hand.
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

Steve Gossmeyer
Training Dog
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:43 pm
Tell us about yourself: Schutzhund helper and trainer I own and work two Dutchies
Location: Long Island

Re: Out vs Give

Post by Steve Gossmeyer » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:49 am

TimL_168 wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:29 am
It's been a while. I've completely dropped "Give (it)"from her lexicon. She'll "Out" a ball or tug as far away as we train(forty yards or so) just as clean as she'll "Out" the same item into my hand. I need to work on the placing of an item actually into my hand with better consistency, but she's dropping it when she's close to my hand.
Sit in a chair hold your hand out and ask her to out if she drops it just ignore her and ask her to deliver it to your hand again repete until she drops it in your hand then reward instantly.... this takes a lot of patience but is the best way

Dutchringgirl
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4883
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Out vs Give

Post by Dutchringgirl » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:01 pm

I dont remember training for the hand specifically, we would put our hands out and they would just do it. But then again, it was a long time ago. I think we would take it at the beginning but then they associated the hand. But Steves way is good, maybe Ill try that with the hound HAHAHAHAHAHA
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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centrop67
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:42 pm
Tell us about yourself: Accidental DS rescuer. Human companion to Radar and Leela. Owner of the site, looking to make this the top site for information and discussion on Dutch Shepherds.
Location: Cutler Bay, FL, USA

Re: Out vs Give

Post by centrop67 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:01 pm

Going back twenty plus years to when I was taught to train my lab, "No" was a No-No. That is, it was too easy to confuse with Go as in "Let's Go". Instead, Unh-Unh was used in place of no.

Unh-Unh works with Radar to some extent as long as I catch him before threshold. But dummy me, I use it interchangeably with Leave It, so i am sure Radar is still confused.
Michael
The pack -> Radar (DS), Leela (Mal?), and Karen (Human) - Cutler Bay, FL USA
RIP: Tequila and Snickers
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Joxgirl
Training Dog
Posts: 557
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:38 pm
Tell us about yourself: Brought a Dutch Shepherd into our lives.
Location: Southern California

Re: Out vs Give

Post by Joxgirl » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:14 pm

I will often interchange German and English. 😜But Rogue is picking up in both. However she will respond better with German. We use the German word for out when we want anything dropped from her mouth. She is not good with giving anything to my hands, without me taking it. Going to use the advice from Steve here on that.
Saralee
Rogue (Dutch Shepherd)-6 months old.
Phoenix (Lab rescue) -10 y/o
Charley (Malti-Poo; rescue)-4 y/o

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