Indeed no blue, curious about the bloodline now...alspyce wrote:Had to hijack these, but here you are. I know it's a mix, just hoping we don't see too many of them slipping into the gene pool.Marjolein wrote:how about posting that photo...that could help...alspyce wrote:So now I need to ask about the brown (Liver) DS that I found a photo of on FB????
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A lot about Blue what about Black
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- Green Dog
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- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:57 pm
- Tell us about yourself: My name is Selena van Leeuwen, 35 yo, married to Dick. We have 2 children, a boy just turned 3 and a girl who will be 2 in may. We breed xHH, we developed our own bloodline with in mind how a PSD should be in our eyes.
- Location: Scherpenzeel, fr, the netherlands
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Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
- Christie M
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- Tell us about yourself: Love my striped beasts.
Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
I found the pics on facebook and the owner. I asked him the bloodlines and he said it was a solid black sire and brindle dam. I can probably find out the specific dogs since I know the breeder. I'll see what he has to say. Its pretty interesting!
Christie Meyer
http://www.northwoodsk9.com
http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
http://www.thunderhawkcanine.com
Be proud of the things that you have taught your dog. Be humbled and grateful for all of the things that your dog has taught you. - Unknown
http://www.northwoodsk9.com
http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
http://www.thunderhawkcanine.com
Be proud of the things that you have taught your dog. Be humbled and grateful for all of the things that your dog has taught you. - Unknown
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- Green Dog
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:57 pm
- Tell us about yourself: My name is Selena van Leeuwen, 35 yo, married to Dick. We have 2 children, a boy just turned 3 and a girl who will be 2 in may. We breed xHH, we developed our own bloodline with in mind how a PSD should be in our eyes.
- Location: Scherpenzeel, fr, the netherlands
- Contact:
Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
Yes please Christie.
- Marjolein
- Working Dog
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- Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:17 pm
- Tell us about yourself: I'm a Dutchie myself ;-) but live in Germany with Johan and my two DS's Cobber-Dingo and Knivil (Dingo and Ivil to friends...)
- Location: Warbeyen, Germany
- Contact:
Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
yeah, that IS interesting
Looks very much like the brown-isch color you get sometimes Selena (Balou etc.) But I think I can see a brindle pretty good on this one, unlike on Balou...?
Looks very much like the brown-isch color you get sometimes Selena (Balou etc.) But I think I can see a brindle pretty good on this one, unlike on Balou...?
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- Green Dog
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:57 pm
- Tell us about yourself: My name is Selena van Leeuwen, 35 yo, married to Dick. We have 2 children, a boy just turned 3 and a girl who will be 2 in may. We breed xHH, we developed our own bloodline with in mind how a PSD should be in our eyes.
- Location: Scherpenzeel, fr, the netherlands
- Contact:
Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
Yes,balou and in lesser extend Rocko are brownish red with black, but not like this.
Have had convo's with Judith ( v Neerland) about the reddish of Balou.
Maybe something that has to do with the black & brindle and maybe blue recesive(?) so the bloodline is very intresting.
Pic of balou where you can see the reddish look
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater
Have had convo's with Judith ( v Neerland) about the reddish of Balou.
Maybe something that has to do with the black & brindle and maybe blue recesive(?) so the bloodline is very intresting.
Pic of balou where you can see the reddish look
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater
- alspyce
- Working Dog
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- Tell us about yourself: I am in New York State. Got my first DS about 14 years ago (more or less as a rescue- lost her in Nov.). After years of GSD's, and a few dogs of other breeds (Rotti/Beauceron/Ger. Shorthaired Pointer/ Yorkie and my current Jack Russell) I now have another DS, 4mo female, no name yet, tho I have a few in mind.
Also have a horse-old quarter horse mare-32.
Can't wait for all the snow to get gone! Spring is coming too slow this year! - Location: Corinth, New York
Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
I started looking for Liver/Brown/Chocolate info pertaining to the DS because my own dog has a kind of faded looking black. It doesn't show up in pictures, but her black is not quite as rich, or dark as true black. Still trying to decide if this is her true color---or too much sun! May have to wait until winter coat comes in.
Some GSD's also have a type of coloring where you really only notice the black is not true if they are standing right next to a dog of correct color. This tho, is usually more visible when they are pups, and they appear more normal color as they get older.
Some GSD's also have a type of coloring where you really only notice the black is not true if they are standing right next to a dog of correct color. This tho, is usually more visible when they are pups, and they appear more normal color as they get older.
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." Anatole France
Chris Carlton/Lyric
Chris Carlton/Lyric
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- Green Dog
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:57 pm
- Tell us about yourself: My name is Selena van Leeuwen, 35 yo, married to Dick. We have 2 children, a boy just turned 3 and a girl who will be 2 in may. We breed xHH, we developed our own bloodline with in mind how a PSD should be in our eyes.
- Location: Scherpenzeel, fr, the netherlands
- Contact:
Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
Could be blue carrier, i notice in pups when young they have a faint blue shine on them but arent blue themselves...with 2 i've noticed as pups gave blue pups
But if you know the bloodlines it should be easy to dertermine.
But if you know the bloodlines it should be easy to dertermine.
- vneerland
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Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
The pics show a brown brindle, with brown nose leather and all. Both parents must carry recessive brown in order for the pup to be brown. The black sire, for example, could have been part DS and Chocolate lab (just making this up, but why not?) The brindle dam part Pitbul and DS (Pit's have brown as well as brindle)Christie M wrote:I found the pics on facebook and the owner. I asked him the bloodlines and he said it was a solid black sire and brindle dam. I can probably find out the specific dogs since I know the breeder. I'll see what he has to say. Its pretty interesting!
So in the best case scenario, the pup is maybe 50% DS at best, the other 50% from one or two beeds that carry brown, which DS's and KNPV DS's do not.
I disagree Marjolein. Selena has had 'bad black' where the black dog appears to look brownish, much like a sun faded black horse. But the eyes are not dillute on those dogs, neither is the nose leather brown.Marjolein wrote:Looks very much like the brown-isch color you get sometimes Selena (Balou etc.) But I think I can see a brindle pretty good on this one, unlike on Balou...?
I have one dog, with a shiny black coat, who had suffered some bad nutrition and lack of grooming at some point in time, while not in my care. He looked, without a doubt, brown at that time. It took some decent food and coat maintenance to revert back to his glossy black. Of course, eyes and nose stayed regular color during all this. The brown you see in some dogs (present company excluded, no doubt) is not always genetic. In the case of the liver "DS", it probably is though.
Judith Van Neerland Dutch Shepherds
- alspyce
- Working Dog
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- Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:51 pm
- Tell us about yourself: I am in New York State. Got my first DS about 14 years ago (more or less as a rescue- lost her in Nov.). After years of GSD's, and a few dogs of other breeds (Rotti/Beauceron/Ger. Shorthaired Pointer/ Yorkie and my current Jack Russell) I now have another DS, 4mo female, no name yet, tho I have a few in mind.
Also have a horse-old quarter horse mare-32.
Can't wait for all the snow to get gone! Spring is coming too slow this year! - Location: Corinth, New York
Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
So Judith, I may be correct in assuming that Lyric may in fact, just be sunburned? As I was saying---wait until the winter coat comes in.
I thought tho, that I was reading something from your website saying that Liver use to be allowed in the DS back in the 30's? So what if a dog were quite heavily inbred on some of those very old lines?
I thought tho, that I was reading something from your website saying that Liver use to be allowed in the DS back in the 30's? So what if a dog were quite heavily inbred on some of those very old lines?
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." Anatole France
Chris Carlton/Lyric
Chris Carlton/Lyric
- vneerland
- Global Moderator
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Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
I don't know, but like I said. I had one dog who appeared brownish at some point in time (unfortunately, no pics to prove it) but who is very much black based when under good care. It is not always related to care, but whoever said that some GSD's can sport a browner looking coat on the parts that are supposed to be black, is right. It happens, for reasons not always clear, and many dogs actually outgrow it.alspyce wrote:So Judith, I may be correct in assuming that Lyric may in fact, just be sunburned? As I was saying---wait until the winter coat comes in.
No, liver has never been accepted. "Chestnut" has, but only in the long hair. It was before color pictures, but one theory is that those were actually red fawn specimen, much like a dark version of the Belgian Tervuren cousin. No reports of brown noses or paperbag yellow eyes, (which goes with bb brown) just 'chestnut' coats, before they banned that. If there had been a recessive for "bb brown" lurking in the breed, I am convinced that it would not take 100 plus years and one giant ocean for it to surface. For me, there is no other explanation than some chocolate in the woodpile, and with DS's or KNPV DS's not sporting that, my money is on a different breed all together to have added that.I thought tho, that I was reading something from your website saying that Liver use to be allowed in the DS back in the 30's? So what if a dog were quite heavily inbred on some of those very old lines?
A link to a dark sable Tervuren:
http://www.dognews.com/pedigreegallery/ ... rvuren.htm
Judith Van Neerland Dutch Shepherds
- alspyce
- Working Dog
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:51 pm
- Tell us about yourself: I am in New York State. Got my first DS about 14 years ago (more or less as a rescue- lost her in Nov.). After years of GSD's, and a few dogs of other breeds (Rotti/Beauceron/Ger. Shorthaired Pointer/ Yorkie and my current Jack Russell) I now have another DS, 4mo female, no name yet, tho I have a few in mind.
Also have a horse-old quarter horse mare-32.
Can't wait for all the snow to get gone! Spring is coming too slow this year! - Location: Corinth, New York
Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
Judith, from your site in the section on history, changing standards, have I misinterpreted this??
In 1928 some white was permitted again, and in 1934, yellow, red, brown, and liver were re-introduced as permitted colors for the shorthair, with yellow and reddish brown, as well as ashen re-introduced for the rough air. The longhair had no color changes. It was too late however. The breed base was small and a lot of good dogs had already been excluded due to the several color and structure changes. The clock could not be turned back again. In 1960 the colors were restricted back to the way things were in 1914. Only this time the auburn longhair disappeared.
Not trying to be persnickety---just trying to understand.
In 1928 some white was permitted again, and in 1934, yellow, red, brown, and liver were re-introduced as permitted colors for the shorthair, with yellow and reddish brown, as well as ashen re-introduced for the rough air. The longhair had no color changes. It was too late however. The breed base was small and a lot of good dogs had already been excluded due to the several color and structure changes. The clock could not be turned back again. In 1960 the colors were restricted back to the way things were in 1914. Only this time the auburn longhair disappeared.
Not trying to be persnickety---just trying to understand.
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." Anatole France
Chris Carlton/Lyric
Chris Carlton/Lyric
- Marjolein
- Working Dog
- Posts: 2078
- Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:17 pm
- Tell us about yourself: I'm a Dutchie myself ;-) but live in Germany with Johan and my two DS's Cobber-Dingo and Knivil (Dingo and Ivil to friends...)
- Location: Warbeyen, Germany
- Contact:
Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
You are right on nose colour...did not notice.vneerland wrote: I disagree Marjolein. Selena has had 'bad black' where the black dog appears to look brownish, much like a sun faded black horse. But the eyes are not dillute on those dogs, neither is the nose leather brown.
I have one dog, with a shiny black coat, who had suffered some bad nutrition and lack of grooming at some point in time, while not in my care. He looked, without a doubt, brown at that time. It took some decent food and coat maintenance to revert back to his glossy black. Of course, eyes and nose stayed regular color during all this. The brown you see in some dogs (present company excluded, no doubt) is not always genetic. In the case of the liver "DS", it probably is though.
On the brown, I used to train at a Rottweiler club, and it is true that black can turn to brown from some food. I forget what they blamed for it, but it was something that is in a lot of dogfood. Change the food, dog goes back to intense black, and a deeper "Brand" (the brown marking on Rottweilers)
- vneerland
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- Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:10 pm
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- Location: Tex@s
Re: A lot about Blue what about Black
alspyce wrote:Judith, from your site in the section on history, changing standards, have I misinterpreted this??
In 1928 some white was permitted again, and in 1934, yellow, red, brown, and liver were re-introduced as permitted colors for the shorthair, with yellow and reddish brown, as well as ashen re-introduced for the rough air. The longhair had no color changes. It was too late however. The breed base was small and a lot of good dogs had already been excluded due to the several color and structure changes. The clock could not be turned back again. In 1960 the colors were restricted back to the way things were in 1914. Only this time the auburn longhair disappeared.
Not trying to be persnickety---just trying to understand.
That's cool, that you found that. I need to re-read the original before translation and see what it says.
Stay tuned. (since I had totally and obviously remembered the auburn, but not liver)
Judith Van Neerland Dutch Shepherds