New Member. Just researching for now.

[HardBodyKarate]

Hello All,

First and foremost, let me say that from everything I've read about the DS so far, I am fully aware that a DS may not be the right dog for me. And if that does end up being the case, no worries. I'm not going to force the issue and raise a DS in an environment that does not suit them.

With that said, allow me to explain my situation, and I apologize if this post gets rather long-winded.

I have never had a dog that I could call my own. Rather, I have latched on to my friends' and family members' dogs, often to the point that their dogs become more attached to me than their owners. Obviously, I have wanted a dog of my own my entire life, it's just that my future has often been a little too unpredictable for me to confidently say that I could provide a dog the attention and living situation they would need for a happy and fulfilling life. I have seen way too many people get dogs without taking such things into consideration. Now and in the coming years, I believe I am finally at a point where dog ownership will be viable.

Two years ago I moved in with a good friend of mine who happened to have a DS. I quickly fell in love with this dog in a way I never have with anyone else, human or canine. His name is Riggins, and for the two or so years that I lived with him, he was the light of my life. He loved everyone and everything, and that love was reciprocated ten fold. I would drive out of town to see fiends and they would always ask "Are you bringing Riggins?!" He was gentle with children, smaller dogs, cats, and even my other roommate's bearded dragon. On more than one occasion I have had to say "Riggins, don't lick the baby." I spent a lot of time caring for him on my own. Making sure he gets all of the exercise he needs, looking after his diet, cleaning up his occasional accidents (he has a sensitive stomach), etc. I have since moved back to New England and Riggins and his owner are in DC. I miss him dearly, and no other dog has come close to filling that void.

Riggins was adopted when he was 5 months old. His foster mom found him wandering around in Southern California. My friend wasn't even familiar with the breed. DNA tests showed he was DS through and through. My friend did almost no training of any type with him, he just socialized Riggins and raised him with love. He's perfectly happy with two walks a day, and 20 minutes of chasing a tennis ball will leave him sleeping like a baby the rest of the day.

Do I expect another DS to have the same exact temperament? Of course not. Do I think that just socializing and love is enough to raise a DS? Of course not. But I am willing to put in the time, effort and above all, training, to have a DS that I am proud to call my best friend. I want more than just a companion. I want a dog whose intelligence continuously surprises me. One that I don't need to have on a leash at all times when we're out in public. One that is friendly with everyone, dog or human. If you've taken the time to read this far, thank you.

There are probably plenty of important points about my decision making process that I have not covered. But to avoid going any longer. I'll stick to just a few basic questions.

1. What else should this forum know about me to better understand if a DS is a viable option for me?

2. From what I have described of Riggins, where on the spectrum of DS temperaments do you suppose he falls on? And if there is any possibility of determining what a DS's personality may be, I would suppose it would be largely dependent on the sire and dam. Would this be a matter of enquiring with the breeder as to which litter I should choose a pup from?

Lastly, here are some pics of me and my best bud Riggins.

[Mark77]

Their personalities are generally very friendly, outgoing, and confident. They can also be highly protective of their home. I wouldn't necessarily count on one being friendly with other people unless you are willing to spend a lot of time socializing the dog. Even then, I would be on the cautious side. Now with their handler, family, they are great. It just depends on what you want to do with the dog and how much you want to put into training since they do need structure.

[HardBodyKarate]

Thank you for the straightforward response. I think my head might just be spinning from all this research. Many sources I've come across can be very discouraging and make it seem like if I'm not hunting cartel members or live on a farm, a DS is not the dog for me. I plan on socializing my dog as much as possible as I don't need a protection dog. That was probably my favorite thing about my friend's dog Riggins is that he brightens up everyone's day, strangers and friends alike. I also plan on doing a lot of training, well beyond just basic obedience.

[Mark77]

I spent the first couple years after getting each dog doing obedience training, socializing but I also did protection training for a few years with an advanced level trainer. I didn't do any type of competition just because it wasn't my thing but there are plenty of people that get into the sport side of protection as their main interest as well. The bite work actually helps the dog focus in that they won't react unless being ordered to do so. They are still hyper protective of the house though so I keep them in crates if someone comes over to fix furnace or do some work around the home etc.

[HardBodyKarate]

I've only done a quick google search and of the ones I've looked at, there's a kennel in Michigan called Cher Car that looks promising. They have a sizable number of dams and sires with each one's title and lineage posted right on the website. It looks like they have litters fairly frequently and if I can confirm that they're reputable, they'd likely be a good resource to reach out to.

[Tim91118]

In your research, you are seeing, and they are showing some of the top trained law enforcement dogs etc. It’s their bragging rights so to speak. Only about 10% may achieve this high level. If you do more than a quick google search , you can find many good breeders . There are quite a few if you delve into the many layers of Facebook. A pedigree can show you a lot . You can readily see a sport bred dog for example. Most breeders will describe their breedings as high drive, or social, or high prey etc. A good breeder will match a pup based on what a future owner describes what they are looking for.

[ladyjubilee]

Have you thought about checking with the Dutch Shepherd rescue? They might be able to pair you with a DS that matches your need.

https://m.facebook.com/NADSR.DSRescue

Yui looks like a great dog.

From Bramble's point of view, all humans are potential belly rubbers. She gets far more visitors than I do!

I'm definitely all about dogs being rescued, so almost all of my dogs have been from the shelter, including Bramble. And all have been great dogs. I'm sure top breeders do have great dogs, but so do shelters and rescues. I sounds like you have the in interest and dedication to handle a rescue.

[Mark77]

The pups that Cher Car has available right now- the cross between Hale and Nala looks solid. Hale is a Land of Oz Jagr grandson, Jagr is my dog's father- a solid dog. Looks like that line was crossed back into additional Van Leeuwen lines. The female Nala also has Van Leeuwen lines but some various french ring titled dogs as well.

Here's the listing for the pups Hale x Nala:
http://chercarkennels.net/dutchshepherds/dutchshepherdpuppies.html

[HardBodyKarate]

If you do more than a quick google search , you can find many good breeders . There are quite a few if you delve into the many layers of Facebook.

Thank you, that's good to know. I'm still just researching the breed and so I have hardly looked into actual breeders at this stage. Only a small handful of breeders came up in google search so I knew that the ones that showed up were only a tiny portion of breeders that are out there. It sounds like Facebook is a popular platform for breeders.

[HardBodyKarate]

Have you thought about checking with the Dutch Shepherd rescue? They might be able to pair you with a DS that matches your need.

I have absolutely considered adoption and would even favor it if I found the right dog. There's nothing better than a happy pooch getting rescued from a tough situation. My searches online, however, were revealing very few results. Petfinder would typically only show 2 or 3 DSs and most of the time they typically had a few behavioral issues that would be better left to an experienced handler to work on. The few shepherd-specific rescues I found rarely had any dogs on their websites and seemed like no one has even updated the website in a while. I'll give this site you posted a look.

Any other good sources you know of?

[HardBodyKarate]

The pups that Cher Car has available right now- the cross between Hale and Nala looks solid. Hale is a Land of Oz Jagr grandson, Jagr is my dog's father- a solid dog. Looks like that line was crossed back into additional Van Leeuwen lines. The female Nala also has Van Leeuwen lines but some various french ring titled dogs as well.

So as a novice, this whole lineage thing is a little confusing to me. I get the general gist that the pup's parents are indicative of how the pup will turn out. But reading all the names, acronyms and titles makes my head spin and I can't really decipher what exactly it all means. I suppose there's posts somewhere on this forum that help to explain it to a beginner like me. I'll look around.

[Mark77]

The breeding looks "OK".

Sire Hale
www.pedigreedatabase.com/dutch_shepherd/dog.html?id=2803419-cher-cars-just-sit-right-back


Dam Nala's parents:

Sire Titan.
www.pedigreedatabase.com/dutch_shepherd/dog.html?id=2490806-alpha-von-titan-ltd

No info on the Nala's mother Nada in the database but she's listed here.
chercarkennels.net/nada.html

[centrop67]

None of the links work below because for some reason I've never been able to link stuff correctly from this forum so just cut and paste into your browser.

As an FYI, this site will only properly link HTTPS web addresses. HTTP is considered not secure.

If the website is unable to supply a secure link, you'll see something like the image below.

[ladyjubilee]

My searches online, however, were revealing very few results. Petfinder would typically only show 2 or 3 DSs and most of the time they typically had a few behavioral issues that would be better left to an experienced handler to work on. The few shepherd-specific rescues I found rarely had any dogs on their websites and seemed like no one has even updated the website in a while. I'll give this site you posted a look.

Any other good sources you know of?

Unfortunately, I think there are more DS in shelters and rescues than you'd think based on Petfinder, or any of the indexes. Shelters don't always list breed, and sometimes DS get listed as "shepherd mix".

I believe a number of the dogs on the sight were from rescues/shelters. Some, like Bramble, may be DS, maybe DS mix or just look and act like a DS. Most shelters aren't going to do a DNA test.

And if all else fails, Shadow is awaiting adoption in the UK

[Mark77]

Yah I didn't see that earlier as far as the hips and elbows. I'd ask for the OFA on the Dam as well. Anyway, OP if you decide to get a dog or take things easy while looking around keep us updated. Maybe now would be the time to begin interviewing trainers, get an idea of what they are about and maybe run questions past the people here. We got experienced people here, some are even trainers themselves that could answer your questions.

[HardBodyKarate]

Yah I didn't see that earlier as far as the hips and elbows. I'd ask for the OFA on the Dam as well. Anyway, OP if you decide to get a dog or take things easy while looking around keep us updated. Maybe now would be the time to begin interviewing trainers, get an idea of what they are about and maybe run questions past the people here. We got experienced people here, some are even trainers themselves that could answer your questions.

Yeah I plan on taking it slow. No need to rush into things. Thank you everyone for being so welcoming.

[TimL_168]

Welcome! It's been a busy weekend. Would've replied sooner. Couple things:
• if you're on Facebook, there are one or two rescue and rehoming pages that are good to follow.
• look for your local working dog trainers- they may be able to put you on to local litters of good dogs.
•That's not to say you should just go get a pup from some guy trying to make a buck with a good looking dog. If you're going to get a dog from a breeder, look into the pedigree. You should be able to look at at least a couple generations and be able to search their medical testing results. I can't remember exactly how, and there are a few different registries. UKC I think has a searchable database, but I just woke up and it's been a few years since I've been on the prowl. There's another European one that I'm sure someone here will bring up if I can't.
• getting an older, adult or adolescent dog might be a good intro for you. Much of the dog's personality and what motivates it are already developed and on display.
• DS and Mal puppies are, from everything I've heard, notorious demons.
• think of a job for your dog, even if it's just a hobby for you. A driven DS will turn on and pick up focus and intensity when they are "working". Nosework, agility, dock diving, are some examples. I, personally really dig nosework because it's low physical stress, we can train just about anywhere, and it's a great tool to have to help condition out of any reactivity on the dog's part.
I'll try to get back on here and catch up later this evening. Gotta go get my kid.

[ladyjubilee]

• think of a job for your dog, even if it's just a hobby for you. A driven DS will turn on and pick up focus and intensity when they are "working".

This is so true. I see it most in the difference between how Bramble heels to me vs how she heels to my son. With me, she does the command and is focused. But when she is given the command to essentially heel to my son suddenly she is ALL business. Admittedly heeling to him is harder for her, but she just gets this look and determination in her eye that she is working.

BTW at training this week, before the session even began my son and Bramble we started their heel. They walked in the door, then just started doing their turns, stops and goes. They were both so serious and so proud of showing off.