Considering getting a DS...should we?

Your home for general discussion. Don't know where to post? Try here first.
ladyjubilee
Training Dog
Posts: 938
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:00 am
Tell us about yourself: Sharing life with Bramble Dutch Shepherd mix (?) and Casper Whippet/Pit Bull (????) mix

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by ladyjubilee »

I think you need to do what works for you and your dog. Protection was never in the works for Bramble because of her boy. But I struggled with training when we first started. Trainers often have a plan..that works, which is great. Unless the plan doesn't work for you.

At one point, as members here maybe remember, I almost gave up. The Plan wasn't working for us (plus I'm terrible handler). I know not every family has the issues we do, but when I finally spoke up and was clear THE Plan wouldn't work for us, the trainers started working on our goals.

If full protection won't work for you, tell them and be firm. If sport does, let them know and if that isn't for them, there are a lot of good trainers out there.
Pack: Peanuts-terrier mix, 16-18 years old, Bramble-Dutch Shepherd, 3 yrs
Location: NC
TheVII
Puppy
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:36 am
Tell us about yourself: Grew up with dogs, but none as a particular as the dutch shepherds. We decided to get a Dutch shepherd pup, but before we commit more feedback would be appreciated.

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by TheVII »

Yeah, I'm just trying to get more options. We got moxie at 12 weeks, with no training. One good thing is that she's very food motivated...and will do commands until I feed her full allotment...then she's hungry and frustrated.

It's only day two, and I can understand why people can't handle these dogs. They have their nature, I really riled her up with a toy, she got very aggressive especially as she's super hungry and frustrated as I carried her to the pad. Took her outside for 40 min, just carried her and we are best friends again.

I think an involved program would be good, considering the apartment situation.

I am now asking for obedience part to be sport level. And calling clubs. But boy, there sooooo many trainer options here. And we don't mind spending, but hard to tell if they are worth what they are charging.
Tim91118
Training Dog
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:34 am
Tell us about yourself: Enjoying my Dutch Shepherd and my Malinois

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by Tim91118 »

Why don’t you research all the training you can personally do with a pup that is food motivated.
Tim
TheVII
Puppy
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:36 am
Tell us about yourself: Grew up with dogs, but none as a particular as the dutch shepherds. We decided to get a Dutch shepherd pup, but before we commit more feedback would be appreciated.

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by TheVII »

We are definitely getting a lot done with the food. I'm just afraid she'll overeat. We are slowly building that obedience up.
Tim91118
Training Dog
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:34 am
Tell us about yourself: Enjoying my Dutch Shepherd and my Malinois

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by Tim91118 »

Feed her daily food supply out of your hand…..not feed her out of a bowl and then try and do obedience with her with more food. Let her be hungry for food when you work her and do it from your hand.
Tim
TheVII
Puppy
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:36 am
Tell us about yourself: Grew up with dogs, but none as a particular as the dutch shepherds. We decided to get a Dutch shepherd pup, but before we commit more feedback would be appreciated.

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by TheVII »

Tim91118 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:37 pm Feed her daily food supply out of your hand…..not feed her out of a bowl and then try and do obedience with her with more food. Let her be hungry for food when you work her and do it from your hand.
Yeah, it helps with her not chowing down on kibble like crazy, too fast.

We feed her kibble exclusively by hand, with commands. I cut up cheese in .25 inch cubes... and its been a non stop training session for over an hour, 3rd one today. Finally taking another nap. She's kicking my butt, but she's a great pup.

Also I think her hunger kinda triggers her frenzy/frustration state. Found her thrashing my jeans a few times when I was cutting her food.

We had maintenance guys painting walls....she's lazer focused on food.

Here we are, learning
Image
Mark77
Training Dog
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:19 am
Tell us about yourself: Own a Mal and a Dutchie.

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by Mark77 »

Enjoy your dog.
TheVII
Puppy
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:36 am
Tell us about yourself: Grew up with dogs, but none as a particular as the dutch shepherds. We decided to get a Dutch shepherd pup, but before we commit more feedback would be appreciated.

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by TheVII »

Mark77 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:51 pmEnjoy your dog.
Thank you. She really is an amazing dog. With so much potential...
TheVII
Puppy
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:36 am
Tell us about yourself: Grew up with dogs, but none as a particular as the dutch shepherds. We decided to get a Dutch shepherd pup, but before we commit more feedback would be appreciated.

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by TheVII »

Image

Hope you guys don't mind me posting here some pictures and some updates.

She really wore me out yesterday, all I was doing is cleaning up the floors and stopping her from chewing on stuff. She was hungry. Today I was going to take her to the office with me but she's not ready. So I dropped her off with my parents.

Expecting the worst. Mum is somewhat upset at the fact that she's going to have to clean her house. But, they were amazed at how well she behaves and listens. Their assement, she's a great pup...just much stronger than other dogs they had that age. And dad spent entire day just watching her.

As for me...I missed her entire day, and kept on colling every 2 hours to get updates.

She's definitely a handful, and everything you guys said is true. But she's amazing.

We are looking at different trainers. Finally, found someone who does sport training that's not 100 miles away. Fingers crossed that they have time for her...and that's its not $30k...
Tim91118
Training Dog
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:34 am
Tell us about yourself: Enjoying my Dutch Shepherd and my Malinois

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by Tim91118 »

Let’s hear about your pups progress !
Tim
TheVII
Puppy
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:36 am
Tell us about yourself: Grew up with dogs, but none as a particular as the dutch shepherds. We decided to get a Dutch shepherd pup, but before we commit more feedback would be appreciated.

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by TheVII »

Tim91118 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:47 pm Let’s hear about your pups progress !
Been meaning to do a little update.

Image

The Good:

So we are 3 months and 3 weeks at 18.2 lb. I found a chart online for growth and that seems on a heavier side. Took her for third set of shots and general vet overview. She's healthy and not overweight.

Girlfriend has been true to her word, waking up at 5 am every morning spending an hour with the dog. I can clearly see results of her training sessions in the afternoon, as all the commands are always cleaner and faster.

Moxie is very food driven, and is laser focused. I followed the advice here with trainer selection. Found a guy about 20 minutes away who's back ground is in French Ring, he's transitioning his training to PSA, his obedience training comes from French ring obedience.

Yesterday was our first lesson and evaluation... They said I was the most prepared first time student they had, because I came with basically everything we got. They also praised the progress dog has been showing. She's following gestures pretty well, to sit, stay, heel, place, crate, come front, fetch with muzzle firmly up. So first lesson was mostly about getting me to be more consistent with verbal markers (yes, good, free). That is our homework. We also have to change our toys as during tug she's, instead of bitting deeper, constantly repositioning her bite. We aren't yanking yet, just building up her confidence by letting her "win" at tug. On a bright side we were pretty conservative with the amounts of toys we got.

Everyone loves her, she's just adorable.

Her blader is getting better too, so longer breaks between pees, we had two nights in a row where we didn't have to take her to the pad in the middle of the night, so we are finally getting more rest. She's teething, but Furniture is still in tact so far. She's on the leash when she's not in crate.

We are doing 15-20 minute sessions of walking on treadmill...(Running sessions, never longer than about 2 to 3 minutes so far at 3 mph, have a constant result of making her want go number 2...and you know that expression...$#!+ hit the fan? Well when it hits treadmill....anywho we go on treadmill only after we are empty now...)

She loves things that make noises, we aren't afraid of thunder, falling objects etc...

We took her to a restaurant that allowed dogs outside, just to get her used to that type of environment. Someone let their 4-5 year old kids just run loose and crazy playing tag around all the tables. One of the kids ran by and basically brashed Moxie's face as she did so, Mox had 0 reaction, and a breated a little easier knowing that lawsuit isn't coming. She's actually great with kids, as in very little reaction to them, and more playful with adults...


The Bad:

There might be some discomfort around larger dogs. One of the trainers told us she's not afraid, but definitely uncomfortable.

Whatever we cannot have is our most favorite toy (brushes, towels, claw grinder....

We love people and we love getting petted, an we rear up to great thise who give us attention.

Trainer showed me how to feed and build focus for her to ignore other things. Practice that until the items in question become background noise. Same thing with people, especially family (large family everyone wants to pet the pup) who we can't tell not to pet her, turn them to background noise with same technique.

Plus we have been trying to discourage any jumping on people as is.

The Ugly:

I read that Dutchies are very mouthy, so we have been mostly redirecting when she gets snappy. It seemed to be working because she's to busy either trainings, playing with toys, running etc.

However, turns out she's more than just mouthy. She has an attitude, and actually tries to bite. Not serious bites (got caught once or twice by her when she clearly missed a toy...that's some bite for a pup) but just snaps, for hands, face, shirt just kind of light fast attacks. I actually thought it was normal, mouthy strong dog who, just due to breed, loves to play rough. She very rarely was effectionate with me, she listens when I tell her to something, she loves to play with me, still her idea bonding is just jumping around, nipping at my hands and face trying to get me to play. Apparently, girlfriend gets kisses and effection in the morning.

When the trainer was getting her used to the brush (just having brush nearby, not brushing her yet) she snapped at him, I thought as usual she wanted the brush as a toy. However, the trainer said that she wasn't aiming anywhere near the brush. She was trying to go straight for the hand.

So we have to correct and stop that kind of behavior while she's still small and young. He gave us a slip collar to take with us. And showed how to use it. After we discouraged the hand and face bitting, she actually been coming up, cuddling up, licking hands just being nice.

We are basically seeing daily improvements. Feels like we are getting good guidance. The dog is happy. Trainer said based on what he saw yesterday, he's 99% sure she got what it takes to actually compete with proper training. Girlfriend is excited about the results she's and that encourages her to work more. We cannot wait to take her outside. She is a lot of dog, but she returns the work put into at least 10 fold.

As I mentioned, it's my girlfriend's first dog, and she's assuming that's how all dogs are hehe. She's very surprised when she hears other people don't do what she does.
Tim91118
Training Dog
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:34 am
Tell us about yourself: Enjoying my Dutch Shepherd and my Malinois

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by Tim91118 »

Thanks for the update. Stay on track and it will all turn out.
Tim
TimL_168
Working Dog
Posts: 1311
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am: a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. We added Endeavor in April 2016. She was not working out in HRD. I train for game recovery and general utility.
Location: central MD

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by TimL_168 »

Ditto
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor
Mark77
Training Dog
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:19 am
Tell us about yourself: Own a Mal and a Dutchie.

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by Mark77 »

You won't know what you have until you start training. The odds are greatly stacked against you since you have an FCI dog and not a purpose bred KNPV one. That being said, don't get the dog fixed until you absolutely rule out that it can't be titled because if she does end up titled then she would be extremely valuable to the breed and there aren't that many of these dogs out there. Stop running it on hard surfaces until it's fully grown including the tread mill, that's a good way to damage it's joints. Same goes for playing to hard with a tug at that age. Take it outside to walk on soft grass while you house break it properly, bring it everywhere with you to socialize it but don't force it to interact either. Fear is a learned response, don't over correct it, remember everything is new to the dog.
TheVII
Puppy
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:36 am
Tell us about yourself: Grew up with dogs, but none as a particular as the dutch shepherds. We decided to get a Dutch shepherd pup, but before we commit more feedback would be appreciated.

Re: Considering getting a DS...should we?

Post by TheVII »

Mark77 wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:18 pm You won't know what you have until you start training. The odds are greatly stacked against you since you have an FCI dog and not a purpose bred KNPV one. That being said, don't get the dog fixed until you absolutely rule out that it can't be titled because if she does end up titled then she would be extremely valuable to the breed and there aren't that many of these dogs out there. Stop running it on hard surfaces until it's fully grown including the tread mill, that's a good way to damage it's joints. Same goes for playing to hard with a tug at that age. Take it outside to walk on soft grass while you house break it properly, bring it everywhere with you to socialize it but don't force it to interact either. Fear is a learned response, don't over correct it, remember everything is new to the dog.
Thank you very much for the heads up. Everyone who saw her (trainers) said she's got potential. We are hoping, but I understood about the odds.

We aren't going to fix her any time soon. I thought about breeding her once or twice in her lifetime. But, I'm not sure I'm experienced enough to actually place the right pup to the right home. Last thing I want is another dog put in the pound or down. Either way we will do much more research before we make that decision.

We just can't wait to take her hiking and outside. We have a 33 ft long line too...just 2 more weeks. We don't have a yard so, I'm not really sure how else to release her energy, she's already bouncing off the walls in the crate. We also have hard floors inside...

As far as tug goes, we release the toy as soon as she tugs on it. The whole purpose for now is confidence building. We release the toy and let her win when she pulls on it.

She's with us often. We take her to public places and train her at a distance from crowds. She's a bit of to happy to get petted by everyone though, so instead of forcing it we are trying to actually limit it. Being more careful with other digs thought...as she's a bit uncommon around them.

People lover her, asking to take pictures etc...
Post Reply