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Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

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centrop67
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Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by centrop67 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:27 pm

Michael
The pack -> Radar (DS), Leela (Mal?), and Karen (Human) - Cutler Bay, FL USA
RIP: Tequila and Snickers
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

sysyphus
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Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by sysyphus » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:36 am

Decent

ladyjubilee
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Tell us about yourself: Apparently I just adopted a Dutch Shepherd. My experience have been with Dalmatians. The shelter listed her as a 3 year old Dutch Shepherd, which truthfully I didn't even know was a breed. I picked her because she is so sweet and energetic. But looking at the forum, I'm wondering if I might have taken on more than I will be able to handle. I did reach out to s DS rescue and they say she does appear to be a DS. But so far she's a joy and though not trained is catching on quickly.

Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by ladyjubilee » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:21 pm

I've been wondering about something touched on in the video. My neighbor has a malinois. A first time dog owner. In my opinion the dog doesn't have a good life. And obviously I have Bram, from a shelter. Believe it or not I'm actually experienced with dogs. Since getting Bramble, I have visited Mal and GSD rescue sites trying to learn and have seen a number of listings for dogs that are unbalanced.

So here is what I don't understand. Why are dogs bred to be working dogs ending up in "pet parent" hands? And why are dogs being bred that are so unbalanced they wash out of military and police programs?

I mean I get why so many pitbulls, especially badly bred pitbulls, are out there. Let's face it the jerk who would put a dog in a fighting pit isn't really going to care...then it explodes from there.

But why are working dogs, who are being purpose bred, ending up in the wrong hands? And what is the working benefit of a dog that can't really exist in society (which seems to be the case with some of the dogs that wash out of military and police programs)? I get that trained purpose bred dogs go for tens of thousand dollars, but is there really that much to be made selling a working dog to the pet market? Why do breeder and AKC sites talk about what great family dogs DS are?

Finally, Superpower dogs is getting a fair amount of advertising, some of which is geared to children. So while I don't think it will be like 101 Dalmatians, I do wonder if there will be a similar result with potentially greater consequences. Beyond the pet owner responsibility addressed in the video, is there a responsibility of the breeder/program to these dogs?

I guess I should add I've never gotten a dog from a breeder, so I don't really know the process.

And yeah these are the kinds of things I wonder about all the time.
Pack: Peanuts-terrier mix, 16-18 years old, Bramble-Dutch Shepherd, 3 yrs
Location: NC

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Dutchringgirl
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Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:25 pm

I do not understand your "unbalanced" question? who is saying they are unbalanced? Unbalanced according to whom?

These dogs are not bred for family pets, they end up there because who ever either ends up with them, or is a poor breeder has no clue and either is ignorant about them and / or thinks they can make money.

many are mixes and are just brindle and labeled as shepherd, so people start to think they are a DS and " oh how wonderful they are as a pet" when they have another mix that has a brindle coat.

I came to these breeds 16 years ago when I first got our Mal. My ( now Ex) hubby at the time had a protection Belgian shepherd that he got from a breeder / trainer in my town that trains for the state police. When that dog died and mine did too, we talked to him about a dog. We sat down and he told us all about them, he showed us some in training and what they can do. We got the Mal, who went to work with my Ex for protection, then a year later I got my DS, but we were in hard training with both dogs.

The mal did not make it as a police dog. but the trainer never let any of his dogs go to a " family" .

It already is like 101 Dalmations, there have been posts over the years here of nasty dog bites where families got a DS and had no clue. there are stories all over the FB DS group of dogs shredding homes etc. People like them because they are cool looking and think they can handle them, there is no way to handle one unless you have solid training.

I got my Sadie from NADSR, but I already had years of solid training with my other DS. No way would Sadie have lasted in another home but mine, she is a nut case.

A good breeder, and I mean a GOOD breeder will never let one of their working dogs go to a "family " home.. No way would my trainer have let us get one if we did not train with him.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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TimL_168
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Location: central MD

Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by TimL_168 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:59 pm

People just don't get it. It's that simple.
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Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by Tim91118 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:25 pm

If standards weren’t so high, we wouldn’t have the dogs we have today. Bottom line, many are just cut from the team.

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Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by sysyphus » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:36 am

Money! Money, money, money.

ladyjubilee
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Tell us about yourself: Apparently I just adopted a Dutch Shepherd. My experience have been with Dalmatians. The shelter listed her as a 3 year old Dutch Shepherd, which truthfully I didn't even know was a breed. I picked her because she is so sweet and energetic. But looking at the forum, I'm wondering if I might have taken on more than I will be able to handle. I did reach out to s DS rescue and they say she does appear to be a DS. But so far she's a joy and though not trained is catching on quickly.

Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by ladyjubilee » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:47 pm

When I looked at some of the rescues there were dogs that washed out of programs, but weren't safe to live in a home. I would consider those dogs unbalanced. Not fit for highly structured purposeful work, but not safe in general society either. I just don't see the ethics of breeding with that outcome.

While I don't diminish the work of Mal and DS rescues now, I don't think it is as bad as when 101 Dalmatians hit , or rather crashed into Dalmatians. Shelters were over run with Dalmatians, over bred, poor temprament dogs. As a result Dals "made it" to the top 10 biters list. The dogs suffered. Our local shelter would have 4 or 5 Dals in at a time.

Plus the kid factor is different. When I went out with a Dal children ran to pet them. It was like a herd. Its not the same with Bram, who ironically would love the attention. Kids do not always listen and don't take no for an answer. So what happens when a crowd of kids descends on a DS because they've seen it on TV and know its safe? And those things are quick! The kids not the dogs.

Then on the DS side, their brindle is flashy, like spots.

I get that many are mixed (pretty sure Bram is one). But that still leads to the question about responsibility. And while Bram is a great dog, she NEEDS training. Something most pet owners aren't prepared for and may not be able to afford.

Which all sounds like I'm arguing, and I'm not. This just is something I think about a lot.
Pack: Peanuts-terrier mix, 16-18 years old, Bramble-Dutch Shepherd, 3 yrs
Location: NC

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Dutchringgirl
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Location: Ct, USA
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Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:51 pm

regardless of breed, the adult humans who let children descend on a dog are just ignorant. If owners cant afford training, they should not have dogs.

I know you are not arguing, this is a topic that, for the most part, in here, we are all in agreement. but out there, not so much and that is where it needs to be. I see on the DS facebook page ( not this one) there are posts after posts of the damage a DS does. The mixes, or just brindle dogs, are usually pretty good, but is the humans that end up with a mix that has a lot of the DS qualities, or a full DS and has no clue, that is what causes trouble. the shelters are not prepared to tell the adopters what they are about and who should have one and who should not.

This is why going to a breeder is a good idea. A good qualified breeder will not give this breed to just anyone.

Your idea of unbalanced is not technically what the breed is about. To really understand them, they are not unbalanced at all. My sadie, could be looked at as unbalanced, but she is not at all. She has a very high drive and wants to work all of the time, but she has double HD ( because of bad breeding from someone who had no business breeding) She wants to work but her body cant keep up and she gets very frustrated.

They are not unbalanced, just humans who do not know about them.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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ladyjubilee
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Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:00 am
Tell us about yourself: Apparently I just adopted a Dutch Shepherd. My experience have been with Dalmatians. The shelter listed her as a 3 year old Dutch Shepherd, which truthfully I didn't even know was a breed. I picked her because she is so sweet and energetic. But looking at the forum, I'm wondering if I might have taken on more than I will be able to handle. I did reach out to s DS rescue and they say she does appear to be a DS. But so far she's a joy and though not trained is catching on quickly.

Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by ladyjubilee » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:23 pm

To an extent I agree. Just like most Dals are not hyper, they are just high energy. My unbalanced isn't about drive or even bred trait. I'm specifically referring to dogs that wash out of legitimate programs, which means they had training by professional staff who know the breeds, yet are not even able to be placed in an experienced home. The loser in that equation is the dog. At shelters t the dog is euthanized and in a rescue they hold the single spot multiple dogs could have taken.

What steps do breeders take to ensure the breeds are going to a good home? What steps do programs take to ensure they dogs that do not make the cut go to a good home? Is spay/neuter a requirement for programs to ensure the program isn't producing mixeds that end up in the wrong hands and shelters? Are breeders following up to ensure they aren't continuing to generate a line that isn't behaviorally suited for work? And I guess I wonder if rescues do educate shelters about working dogs. My guess is yes, but I don't really know.

I do somewhat disagree about training. Only one of my other dogs did an official training program and that at Pet Smart. I never would have expected to need to spend the kind of money for one on one training. I'm not complaining, it is totally worth it for her. But none of the others needed that level of training. (Need in terms of survival in society.)
Pack: Peanuts-terrier mix, 16-18 years old, Bramble-Dutch Shepherd, 3 yrs
Location: NC

TimL_168
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Posts: 1000
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:11 pm
Tell us about yourself: I am: a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. We added Endeavor in April 2016. She was not working out in HRD. I train for game recovery and general utility.
Location: central MD

Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by TimL_168 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:13 pm

Ok
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Dutchringgirl
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Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:37 pm

Pet smart is not training
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Brindle Lake Dog
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Tell us about yourself: This is my first Dutchie. I’ve trained field trial labs and a Malinois in IPO. Lost my Mal to cancer at age 11 and wasn’t really looking for a pup yet.
I got a call from my old training director letting me know he had just the pup for me: A Dutchie...
It just sort of happened and now I have a brindle Fur Missile living with me. His name is Jaguar; Jag for short.

Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by Brindle Lake Dog » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:54 am

Unfortunately, I don’t believe many would be owners do the appropriate amount of research on their working breed of choice. I also feel that some less than ethical breeders sell to anyone that will buy a pup so that they don't get stuck with them.
The “unbalanced dogs” that often times end up in shelters are merely working dogs that NEED TO WORK! If owners don’t find them something to do; the dogs will FIND something to do. It doesn’t have to be protection sports or herding; these dogs just need lots of exercise. You need to be dedicated to providing these activities, whether they be sport, hiking, or just lots of walks.
To be honest it kind of worries me that Mals and to a lesser extent, but ever increasing occurrence, Dutchies are becoming more popular. I’d hate to see these breeds get screwed up like some other breeds in the past have.

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Dutchringgirl
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Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
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Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by Dutchringgirl » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:46 am

too late, the breed is already screwed up. look at the fb group, not this fb group, the other one (s) they are full of people who should not have these dogs, although many if not most, are just brindle mixes that they want to be DS. One lady posted she wanted one because they looked cool, then you have the people in the group saying, "sure! " get one they are great dogs".
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Steve Gossmeyer
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Re: Dog Owner Failure with a Malinois - Working Dogs Should Not Be Owned by Everyone

Post by Steve Gossmeyer » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:06 pm

Smh you'll never keep stupid people from doing stupid things

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