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Dutch shepherd standard

General "standards" discussion not specifically related to the coat variety
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Susannah
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Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:45 pm
Tell us about yourself: 29 year old nurse. 2 year old dutch shepherd at home and iguana.

Dutch shepherd standard

Post by Susannah » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:07 pm

Hello. I wanna know, what standards there are with ur dog. So have u register?

And, for international dog shows for exbl. Is ur dog registered or not? And can it go for Europe shows?

I Got a feeling many are from mal. Lines, that is why i am asking, cause here if its not FCI registered, its crosbreed.

ladyjubilee
Green Dog
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:00 am
Tell us about yourself: Apparently I just adopted a Dutch Shepherd. My experience have been with Dalmatians. The shelter listed her as a 3 year old Dutch Shepherd, which truthfully I didn't even know was a breed. I picked her because she is so sweet and energetic. But looking at the forum, I'm wondering if I might have taken on more than I will be able to handle. I did reach out to s DS rescue and they say she does appear to be a DS. But so far she's a joy and though not trained is catching on quickly.

Re: Dutch shepherd standard

Post by ladyjubilee » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:02 am

Bramble is either a DS or a DS mix or a dog that looks and acts like a DS ;). She is from a local animal shelter in an area that has breeders that produce working dogs and are not considered reputable. So, not FCI in any way.

Almost all of my dogs have been shelter or rescue dogs. I didn't even know what a Dutch Shepherd was until I got Bramble, definitely didn't know KPNV or FCI or whatever alphabet!
Pack: Peanuts-terrier mix, 16-18 years old, Bramble-Dutch Shepherd, 3 yrs
Location: NC

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centrop67
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Posts: 2413
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:42 pm
Tell us about yourself: Accidental DS rescuer. Human companion to Radar and Leela. Owner of the site, looking to make this the top site for information and discussion on Dutch Shepherds.
Location: Cutler Bay, FL, USA

Re: Dutch shepherd standard

Post by centrop67 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:15 pm

Susannah wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:07 pm
I Got a feeling many are from mal. Lines, that is why i am asking, cause here if its not FCI registered, its crosbreed.
My Radar is 50% DS, 25% Mal, and 25% GSD based on DNA.

We are a US-based group, so most of the dogs here were imported from the KNPV program for police and military and are as you said, most likely "crossbreed".

That doesn't mean there aren't any FCI dogs here, but if I understand the history, in the 1950s there was an injection of Mals and/or GSDs into FCI Dutch Shepherds to keep the breed going.
Michael
The pack -> Radar (DS), Leela (Mal?), and Karen (Human) - Cutler Bay, FL USA
RIP: Tequila and Snickers
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

ladyjubilee
Green Dog
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:00 am
Tell us about yourself: Apparently I just adopted a Dutch Shepherd. My experience have been with Dalmatians. The shelter listed her as a 3 year old Dutch Shepherd, which truthfully I didn't even know was a breed. I picked her because she is so sweet and energetic. But looking at the forum, I'm wondering if I might have taken on more than I will be able to handle. I did reach out to s DS rescue and they say she does appear to be a DS. But so far she's a joy and though not trained is catching on quickly.

Re: Dutch shepherd standard

Post by ladyjubilee » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:24 pm

Do you know what was terrible about the "catastrophic" outcross with German Shepherds in the 20's?
Pack: Peanuts-terrier mix, 16-18 years old, Bramble-Dutch Shepherd, 3 yrs
Location: NC

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centrop67
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Posts: 2413
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:42 pm
Tell us about yourself: Accidental DS rescuer. Human companion to Radar and Leela. Owner of the site, looking to make this the top site for information and discussion on Dutch Shepherds.
Location: Cutler Bay, FL, USA

Re: Dutch shepherd standard

Post by centrop67 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:44 pm

ladyjubilee wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:24 pm
Do you know what was terrible about the "catastrophic" outcross with German Shepherds in the 20's?
I am not sure I understand the question.
Michael
The pack -> Radar (DS), Leela (Mal?), and Karen (Human) - Cutler Bay, FL USA
RIP: Tequila and Snickers
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

ladyjubilee
Green Dog
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:00 am
Tell us about yourself: Apparently I just adopted a Dutch Shepherd. My experience have been with Dalmatians. The shelter listed her as a 3 year old Dutch Shepherd, which truthfully I didn't even know was a breed. I picked her because she is so sweet and energetic. But looking at the forum, I'm wondering if I might have taken on more than I will be able to handle. I did reach out to s DS rescue and they say she does appear to be a DS. But so far she's a joy and though not trained is catching on quickly.

Re: Dutch shepherd standard

Post by ladyjubilee » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:46 pm

All of the articles I've read about breed history mention the "disastrous" cross with GSD....but none comes out to say what was so bad.
Pack: Peanuts-terrier mix, 16-18 years old, Bramble-Dutch Shepherd, 3 yrs
Location: NC

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SEL
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Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:17 pm
Tell us about yourself: I live in Arizona and have an 8 year old female Dutch Shepherd

Re: Dutch shepherd standard

Post by SEL » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:21 pm

Hi, here is the Dutch Shepherd breed standard from UKC, AKC and FCI:
https://www.ukcdogs.com/dutch-shepherd
http://images.akc.org/pdf/breeds/standards/Official_Standard_for_the_Dutch_Shepherd_01.01.17.pdf
http://www.fci.be/Nomenclature/Standards/223g01-en.pdf
The AKC puts Dutch Shepherds in the FSS (Foundation Stock Service) group, I assume because the Dutch Shepherd is considered a rare breed.
https://www.akc.org/breeder-programs/fo ... gram-home/
As far as registering an imported dog with the AKC, the AKC has information and a list of recognized foreign registries here:
https://www.apps.akc.org/apps/contact/a ... gistry.cfm
https://www.akc.org/rules/special-registry-services/
They don't recognize the FCI itself since the FCI is "an organization made up of individual registries that each have their own pedigrees." But there is a long list of acceptable foreign registries.
I have no idea about registering an AKC or UKC registered dog with a registry in another country. I assume each one would have it's own criteria and requirements and that the dog would have to be registered with one of them in order to compete in an event in that country.
Not sure about Mal lines in Dutch Shepherds in the US. My DS has UKC registered parents, but I only registered with AKC. I got a DNA test for her a few weeks ago because I was really curious and they had it on sale for a good price when I got it. So I'm curious to see what it says, whether it will be 100% DS or not. Although I did read that their DNA test is only 90% accurate for purebred dogs, so who knows.
Idna in AZ, (8 yrs)
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centrop67
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Posts: 2413
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:42 pm
Tell us about yourself: Accidental DS rescuer. Human companion to Radar and Leela. Owner of the site, looking to make this the top site for information and discussion on Dutch Shepherds.
Location: Cutler Bay, FL, USA

Re: Dutch shepherd standard

Post by centrop67 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:22 pm

ladyjubilee wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:46 pm
All of the articles I've read about breed history mention the "disastrous" cross with GSD....but none comes out to say what was so bad.
Can you point me to one of the articles?

Most of what I read was about WWII causing a lack of breeding of DS and having to mix GSDs and Mals to keep a foundation stock. I've also read that there wasn't much difference between German, Dutch, and Belgian shepherds other than coat and color prior to the introduction of breeding standards a little over 100 years ago.
Michael
The pack -> Radar (DS), Leela (Mal?), and Karen (Human) - Cutler Bay, FL USA
RIP: Tequila and Snickers
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Tim91118
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Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:34 am
Tell us about yourself: Enjoying my Dutch Shepherd female named Anja

Re: Dutch shepherd standard

Post by Tim91118 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:13 pm

http://younghaus.com/fci-vs-knpv-dutch-shepherds/

ladyjubilee
Green Dog
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:00 am
Tell us about yourself: Apparently I just adopted a Dutch Shepherd. My experience have been with Dalmatians. The shelter listed her as a 3 year old Dutch Shepherd, which truthfully I didn't even know was a breed. I picked her because she is so sweet and energetic. But looking at the forum, I'm wondering if I might have taken on more than I will be able to handle. I did reach out to s DS rescue and they say she does appear to be a DS. But so far she's a joy and though not trained is catching on quickly.

Re: Dutch shepherd standard

Post by ladyjubilee » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:18 pm

https://www.americandutchshepherdassoc.org/history.html

This one isn't so dramatic, but still says, "There are records of some GSD crosses into the short haired version that occurred between 1910 and 1916. But it took quite some time to get rid of the subsequent undesirable traits."

So it looks like from the one article the dogs were bigger. From the other that the coloring was affected.
Pack: Peanuts-terrier mix, 16-18 years old, Bramble-Dutch Shepherd, 3 yrs
Location: NC

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centrop67
Site Admin
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Posts: 2413
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:42 pm
Tell us about yourself: Accidental DS rescuer. Human companion to Radar and Leela. Owner of the site, looking to make this the top site for information and discussion on Dutch Shepherds.
Location: Cutler Bay, FL, USA

Re: Dutch shepherd standard

Post by centrop67 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:51 pm

ladyjubilee wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:18 pm
This one isn't so dramatic
I hate it when something is presented without citation.

So, I went down a rabbit hole in search of an answer. Believe it or not my searches brought me back to this forum twice, but I have been unable to find the answer as of yet.

It might take a research librarian and someone who speaks Dutch.

Who knows? The answer may be lurking in one of the older threads here on the forum :wtg:
Michael
The pack -> Radar (DS), Leela (Mal?), and Karen (Human) - Cutler Bay, FL USA
RIP: Tequila and Snickers
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

ladyjubilee
Green Dog
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:00 am
Tell us about yourself: Apparently I just adopted a Dutch Shepherd. My experience have been with Dalmatians. The shelter listed her as a 3 year old Dutch Shepherd, which truthfully I didn't even know was a breed. I picked her because she is so sweet and energetic. But looking at the forum, I'm wondering if I might have taken on more than I will be able to handle. I did reach out to s DS rescue and they say she does appear to be a DS. But so far she's a joy and though not trained is catching on quickly.

Re: Dutch shepherd standard

Post by ladyjubilee » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:54 pm

Yeah, it really peeked my curiosity because I thought the GSDs of the period were considered to be pretty sound dogs without the modern defects.
Pack: Peanuts-terrier mix, 16-18 years old, Bramble-Dutch Shepherd, 3 yrs
Location: NC

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