Hello from southern Illinois (near St. Louis Missouri)

[Avabhash]

Hi everyone:

Just joined and I have a few questions. I have researched the breed and am very interested. I am hoping for a little information from actual Dutchie owners. I was interested in a Belgian Malinois but have been a bit dissuaded by various comments from owners/breeders and other research. Someone on a forum sent me a note saying that it sounded like the qualities I am looking for more closely resemble a Dutchie. (A dog to jog with, hike with, take around to work, but at the end of the day be a FAMILY pet--One that can curl up with the family on a bed or couch and not eat the smaller dog or cats. I would appreciate and thought or experiences anyone has to share. (And of course I am happy to answer any questions should anyone require further information) Thanks in advance for any help.

Avabhash

[leih merigian]

Hi and welcome,

Your description of a DS is very possible, but for the curl up with the family and leave the other pets alone part, you're going to have to invest in a lot of training and management time, and also, wait for some maturity to happen. Also, they need to be kept mentally challenged, given their brainiac quotient, and exercised enough to reach the chill place with the family .

[Avabhash]

Thanks. I can train him and take him to a trainer. There is also a dog sport facility near by where we could exercise and try activities. I assumed with any puppy the maturity issue will have to factor in over time. Do you think this is especially the case with this breed? Do you feel with proper socialization and training my children's friends will be safe? I guess I am trying to understand just how protective and hyper they are. Is the time and training comparable to other dogs...or through the roof like with a Malinois? Thanks again!

[Avabhash]

Sorry...Still learning appropriate lingo...not Dutchie---Dutch Shepherds. And I am wondering if anyone knows of a reputable breeder in the midwest area. I would like to meet/spend some time with this breed. Thanks!

[leih merigian]

Thanks. I can train him and take him to a trainer. There is also a dog sport facility near by where we could exercise and try activities. I assumed with any puppy the maturity issue will have to factor in over time. Do you think this is especially the case with this breed? Do you feel with proper socialization and training my children's friends will be safe? I guess I am trying to understand just how protective and hyper they are. Is the time and training comparable to other dogs...or through the roof like with a Malinois? Thanks again!

I hope by "take him to a trainer" you mean someone who will help you train your own pup/dog, rather than taking him to someone else to train for you. It's all about relationship, and whoever trains the dog will have the relationship with him/her. Training is fun and one of the things that helps to keep any smart dog challenged and staisfied.

You are talking about a dog from working lines, and any dog from working or field lines is going to have higher energy levels and more drive than a dog from show lines. So, the same would go for a Germans shepherd dog, Malinois, any kind of retriever, etc.; if they come from the working side of the breed, they're going to need a lot of activity, both physical and mental, to be happy and able to learn to chill.

Children should not be left unsupervised with any dog, period. Lots of people do it, but most of them are from the clueless/ignorant category . There are tons of dog bites every year, and with kids, it's often from kids getting in the dogs' faces and pestering them. If you socialize your pup enough and correctly, it may be just fine with children, but it depends on the temperament of the dog you end up with. You may want to consider going to DS breed rescue and getting a slightly older pup (like 18 months or so, on up), which will have been thoroughly assessed and can be matched up with your family.

Time and training is significant.

What kind of dog experience do you already have? (breed/kind of training, etc) Also, why are you considering a DS or Mal to begin with?

[Avabhash]

Of course that is what I mean by "take him to a trainer." I think it would be rather arrogant to suggest that I know everything there is to know and that a professional trainer could not help in the process. I was not even aware one could simply drop their dog off with a trainer and not be around. I don't think such a scenario exists where I am from so I am not sure what the question means. Dog experiece I have? I am in my forties and have had dogs (+animals) my entire life--including around my children for their entire lives. So the supervision comments, while true, are not necessary to anyone with an iq above 6. (Oh, and I have had dachsunds, westies, a golden and an akita...but no working dogs--thus the question) I was asking specifically about Dutch Shepherds, because as I wrote above, I was attracted to many of the Mali traits/looks but also realized they may be a bit much for the family. Someone "pm"'d me and mention the DS. So I got on an DS forum and asked. Seemed like a logical progression...but maybe not. The DS and Mals appeal to me because I want a dog that can keep up with an active family, jog with me, ride around with me, hike, camp, swim, perhaps participate in agility training and be a great family pet. They are also beautiful and seemingly highly intelligent. Bear in mind I have researched the breed so comments like "working dog", "high energy", "need stimulation", "supervision" are a bit redundant. (And by the way, my children know how to behave around dogs or I would not consider ANY pet, especially this breed) I was hoping for some heart to heart direct DS experience insight--Otherwise I can go to Wiki or Dogs 101. If someone actually has a DS and doesn't mind actually answering a few questions sans the lecture, great. If not, no pr\roblem and thanks anyway.

[Aztechalo]

It's ok. Don't feel beat up by the questions. You didn't outline your experience and your original question was answered by the other posts. A lot of people get a DS as a family dog then they end up in shelterers. The rescue group, North American Dutch Shepherd Rescue, is full. No one wants to see another dog owner sucked in by an unscrupulous breeder who will tell you they are excellent family dogs then turn you loose with a nightmare puppy. Here is my experience:

I bought from a less than scrupulous breeder on the central coast of California. Got a 9 month old female, who had done bite work but had no obedience. Chaos lived up to her name. She was flighty, high energy, she could not sit still without vibrating every muscle in her body. She experienced the world through her teeth. From day one she was loyal to the family but thought nothing of plowing down toddlers and the elderly. We worked and worked and worked with her. I spent a fortune with the dog trainer and drilled at home. She was always fine with the cats if they didn't run and eventually, she was fine with that, too but the larger livestock is a different story. She tortures our goats and horses when she thinks she can get away with it. There was a point where she became overly protective of the house and her humans. she developed her big girl bark. She had a near miss in which I thought she was going to bite the neighbor. Back to the trainer. She was difficult to nightmareish until she turned two. Then one day she was perfect. All of our work paid off. There are still things we have to work on. She hate the UPS driver. I've ordered people to stay in their cars if she sees them before we do. She is VERY sensitive to how we feel about someone. Friends are welcomed with open arms and wagging tail. Strangers are greeted with hackles and suspicion. We carefully introduce every guest. I still don't trust her with other people's children. She is still a bit of a brute and she still scrapes her teeth on people. I trust her implicitly with our own kids. They dress her up in human clothes while she looks humiliated but compliant. They lay on her, which she loves and gets her scratches.

I think my experience is not too far off from others who got a DS as a family dog. I am loyal to the breed now. I really want to to a protection sport but her heart isn't in it. I've already started thinking about getting another one (like child birth, we are programmed to forego the paid).

[Aztechalo]

Also, I would like to put in a plug for the NADSR. They have many awesome dogs who ended up in uneducated homes and then shelters. You will spend a fraction of the price as you would from a breeder and you may even be able to skip the worst of the puppy phase. All the love, none of the furniture destruction!

[leih merigian]

Avabhash,

I'm sorry you felt so offended by my questions and comments. Perhaps you can understand that from this side of the screen, there is no way to know what someone's experience is without asking. I'm afraid there are a lot of people to take their dogs to trainers to be trained for them. And, there are tons of people who think it's just fine to leave kids and dogs together, unsupervised. I don't like to make assumptions, so I ask.

At the risk of offending you further, I'd add that you're going to have to take individual differences into account, which are more drastic than breed differences, IMO. Everything will depend on the temperament of the specific puppy you bring home, as well as it's environment, of course. Since it's obvious you will provide a stellar environment , we're back to individual differences.

My DS would not be safe with children alone, that's for sure. She's had tons of socialization, but she has a basic lack of confidence that will tend to lead her to react defensively to anything unexpected. I don't expect that to change. Even with close supervision, I have to be very careful with her and manage her around kids. There are other DS who would be very trustworthy around kids, in any situation. Some learn to chill, some don't, or take an awfully long time to learn to do so.

So, it's kind of hard to answer whether a DS would be too much for your family. It would depend on the specific pup in question.