On a Mission to Gather Info!

[FishGirl]

Hi Everyone! My name is Veronica. I've joined the forum in an effort to learn as much as I can about DS's. I'm considering getting a puppy in the next year or so, and I am trying to arm myself with as much knowledge as I can before taking the leap! Thanks!

[Dutchringgirl]

What information would you like? What is your situation? Previous dogs? Your own training background? What do you want to do with the dog? What will the dogs job be? Text book knowledge and real life knowledge are two very different things. DS's are not your average every day dog and do not do well in every situation. The more you can tell us about yourself and your future plans for a dog the more information we can give you about the breed. I have two Dutchies and they are polar opposites, so what you may read and what they are truly like can be very different.

[johninny]

Welcome! now waiting with baited breath as Lisa said it all.

[FishGirl]

Thanks for the terrific welcome! I was on here last night, doing as much reading as I could, so as not to waste everyone’s time with questions that have already been answered. I still need some advice, however.

About me: I’m in my 30’s, married with no kids. Not planning on having kids. We own an aquarium store. I volunteer weekly at a No-Kill Animal Shelter, and also foster kittens over the summer when the shelter is inundated with hundreds of homeless babies. I’ve never owned a dog. My husband has had dogs his whole life; his last boy Spanky passed about 5 years ago. I plan on fostering puppies this summer, to get a better feel for the routine, etc.

We aren’t in a rush, we want to make sure that we make the right decisions and are fully prepared before bringing a new puppy home forever.

We like medium/large, athletic dogs. I was initially drawn to the Malinois, but later realized that they might be too much dog for me. Hubby would like a Weimariner, but we realize they may not be the best match with our kitties. Then I saw the DS’s. Intelligent, athletic & beautiful – I’m smitten.

There is a nice training facility in the area that also offers Agility & Advanced Obedience, which I would love to do with my dog. I don’t see myself competing, but would enjoy doing these activities just for fun & bonding. I would be able to exercise with my dog in the mornings & evenings, and she would come to the fish store with me during the day to hang out & help keep an eye on things. I have 2 days off a week, so we could do the Agility & other fun stuff on those days.

Questions:
If raised from a puppy, what are the chances that a DS would get along with my cats?
Does anyone have experience adopting from Cher Car Kennels?
I have a bossy, confident, Type “A” personality, but no dog-training experience. I would be the primary caregiver/trainer for the new puppy, since I have more free time than my husband. Am I nuts for considering a DS?
Thanks in advance!

[Boogies]

Any dog raised with kitties, duckies, or other animals will likely accept them as part of the family that he protects and tolerates. I adopted my Malinois as a puppy. I took him out for farm chores every day. He grew up around goats, horses , baby ducks, geese. Although, as a pup, he liked to grab ducklings and play keep away with them, he never actually hurt them. He outgrew this game and he now wades through puddles of two inch high ducklings, gets butted by orphaned goats looking for a nipple, and followed around by a pack of thirty bouncing, baby goats. Yes. It's as cute as it sounds!

This same dog grabbed a hald grown raccoon off a tree and killed it. In his eyes, my animals belonged and the raccoon did not. He runs off feral cats that prey on ducklings and feral cats who don't. I'm not a cat person (they carry toxoplsmosis which causes abortion in goats) and he seems to know it.

So, raised right, you should be able to get any puppy to accept your other pets. You can even get adults to accept prey as family. I've adopted many dogs in the past who came into a home with parrots, horses and other critters. It can be done.

[FishGirl]

Thanks for the info. This is exactly what I've been reading everywhere else too, I just like to get the advice of those who have actual experience!

[johninny]

one thing, though: if you have researched Malinois and ''found they might be too much dog'', then except by luck of the draw of an individual dog, a DS is likely to be no better a fit. you have initially been drawn to the two almost identical breeds that have endless energy, strong wills and opinions of their own, and often [ usually? ] require experienced and knowledgeable training that can differ from the approaches often taken to train other breeds. glad you are not in a rush.
you have not had a dog or trained a dog --- do you think you are a dog person anyway? fostering puppies - depending on the breeds and aside from the work involved - will probably not be much of a guide to dealing with a DS puppy/young DS, but still better than nothing in terms of experience -- AND SOMETHING WE WILL ALL LOVE YOU FOR DOING.

[LyonsFamily]

If the malinois is too much dog for you, then the DS will likely be too. Like others mentioned, growing up with other animals shouldn't make them a problem, but I would be concerned if you're constantly fostering kittens and they're changing all of the time. It's easier to get them used to select animals, but requiring them to get along with everything that comes into your home, since it'll be different all of the time, might be asking a lot.

My DS gets along fine with the creatures that he sees frequently, and he adjusts to strange dogs at shows and training, enough to be neutral, but if you put a new animal in his environment, it takes a long while for him to get used to it. I would think rotating kittens would be particularly difficult, due to the high prey drive DS have and they wouldn't be there long enough to properly introduce a dog to the concept.

I've never purchased a dog from Cher Car, but I did get to meet Cheryl this weekend and watch a few of her dogs in the obedience and conformation rings. She, as well as others from Cher Car, seem to be very involved with the dog world, and the dogs seemed to be well rounded and look great. With any kennel, you'll want to call and talk to them and, if able, check out the kennel to find out if their dogs will fit with your lifestyle. There are quiet a few breeders that are doing everything right and have wonderful dogs, but they would never have anything that would work for me.

Another thing I would be concerned with is having the dog come with to the fish store with you every day. It really depends on the situation and setting. DS are protective by nature and not entirely social animals. They can be socialized from early on, but some dogs would get territorial over the store. I'm not saying that every one will be aggressive, I would just proceed with caution having one in a public store. Odin comes to the grooming salon with me some of the time, but he can't be running around loose when clients come in. If you're looking for a dog that will run around and greet people and strangers happily, that may be hard to find with this breed.

You're absolutely going to have to see a high drive dog savy trainer to help you with the training since you have no experience. If you do get a DS, make sure the training center is knowledgeable about how to work with them. They work differently than border collies on the agility course, so that may be something that might not work out if the center has never worked with them. Do they also offer beginner obedience?

[FishGirl]

John, thank you for your honest feedback. This is exactly the kind of info that I'm looking for.

So, perhaps my first step should be getting familiar with the "standard" dog training practices. There is a dog-training group that waives the fees if a volunteer wishes to transport & train a shelter dog. This seems like something that would be fun & educational for me, while at the same time helping a shelter dog learn his manners & increase his chances at adoption. I understand that training a DS, and raising a puppy/juvie is an entirely different scenario. But this will put me on the path to making a more informed decision & I'll know if I have any natural dog abilities!

[FishGirl]

Stephanie, thank you for your opinion. I often come & go from the store alone, sometimes in the evenings & was particularly looking for a dog that would be a bit of a watchdog (not an attack dog). But, I also frequently have small children running around the store as well. I'm not really looking for a Lab that will go up to everyone & lick them. I was more looking for the "intimidation" factor. But I can't really have him chasing & nipping at little kids either.

The facility near me offers everything from Puppy Classes, to Beginner & Advanced Rally, Obedience & Agility. They also offer weekly Doggie Socials, where 8 people can bring their dogs for socialization. And you can rent the Agility / Rally areas for a couple bucks if you want to go in & train/practice with your pup during off-times. I would have to inquire if they have experience with the high-drive breeds.

Thanks too for your input re: the foster kittens. They are kept in a large, separate Kitten Room to prevent any transfer of disease, etc. But... that's not to say they don't charge out of the door when I open it sometimes!

This gives me much to think about.

[johninny]

When asking about trainers' experience with high-drive breeds, get specific with them. do they see as high drive a german shepherd or some other breed that is relatively sleepy compared to DS and Mals? do they personally have experience training DS/mal? get them to comment on difference between training gsd and ds, for example.

[Dutchringgirl]

My advice would be to pass on the DS. Like the others said, if a Mal is going to be too much, so will the DS. After having a Mal,two DS and a GSD, IMO the GSD is lower drive than the DS, but I also have two DS with very opposite drives. If I had kittens for foster, i would not have a DS or any high prey dog. If they are growing up with a cat in the house, that is different, but if the cats were comming and going, Id find another breed. For protection, any dog will do. A dog in itself will ward off someone looking to bother you, the dog has teeth, that is all they need to know and they will look else where. You can train any dog to bark on command, so If you were at the store alone and something didnt feel right, you could have the dog bark for you . As for the trainer, again, IMO they should be familiar with the breed, what one trainer thinks is high drive may not be close the the DS high drive. My two year old rescue has an insanely high drive. She will drop dead asleep in a shot and in the same shot be up at the door waiting for me and I didnt even see her move, it was like a brindle flash before my eyes.

[Sugars Mom]

Another thing I would be concerned with is having the dog come with to the fish store with you every day. It really depends on the situation and setting. DS are protective by nature and not entirely social animals. They can be socialized from early on, but some dogs would get territorial over the store. I'm not saying that every one will be aggressive, I would just proceed with caution having one in a public store. Odin comes to the grooming salon with me some of the time, but he can't be running around loose when clients come in. If you're looking for a dog that will run around and greet people and strangers happily, that may be hard to find with this breed.

I just wanted to agree with this comment...we have a home based business and it is something we really have to work on. She is territorial and will bark when customers come and isn't always the most welcoming She isn't loose when people come over, and we always have to watch any initial greeting with strangers. She is def wary of strangers. Not saying it couldn't work for you, but be prepared to put in ALOT of training time on this.

[Dutchringgirl]

Ditto and Ditto. There would be no way Sadie could be in this environment. She is super protective, and thats a good thing, that is their job. Now, THalie on the other hand, would be awesome, she has low drive and just wants to play with every one. This is how different each dog with in one breed would be, so its a crap shoot, and I would actually say, that its more likely than not your DS will be protective and difficult in this situation. It will be alot of work and frustration bot both of you. There are plenty of other breeds that would be good for this situation, they can be around the store and happy and you wont have any worries with people, and you can train them to bark on command and be ready on command so they look scary.

[johninny]

continuing Lisa's thought from above: like a shepherd mix at a shelter. you could regularly check local sites, going occasionally to meet a dog in person. if one seems right and you feel the need, have a good trainer who can go meet the dog, evaluate it, and give his sense whether the dog has the potential to fit with your situation. you save a life and have a better sense of what you are getting than with a puppy [ and avoid the hassles]. there are awesome shepherd mixes almost everywhere you look in shelters. you can find one of them that is exactly what you want - and that dog would be so appreciative and so aware of what you did for him!
p.s., might even wind up with a stripey shepherd mix so you might get some benefits of a DS without the more difficult aspects.

[FishGirl]

Thank you everyone for your advice & information!

I do think my first step will be to take advantage of the free training sessions for the dogs at the shelter where I volunteer. I can get a feel for the training & handling.

Then I can ask the shelter's Dog Manager keep an eye out for me for potential matches (i.e., a bridle shepherd-mix, LOL!!!). Being a long-time volunteer, they would allow me to "foster with intent" to be sure it was a good fit before committing to "Forever."

Perhaps I will see you all in 8-10 years after I have more experience & feel confident enough to get my Dream Doggie - a DS!