Thoughts appreciated

[Marko_1]

If you feel this better moved to protection sports feel free I'm not sure where it belongs. Just need some thoughts.

Marko is just over two, his first 16 months spent in Netherlands being trained/raised for K9 type work. At 16 months brought here to the states to do just that. Was purchased from the training company and returned because he won't out off a bite without being held up by his collar til he lets go.

At home he is awesome and I work him daily in obedience and he is doing great. I've had him since November. We are working with a GREAT trainer and did let him have one bite one weekend at training to see his total reaction and that he does not get aggressive toward the handler/me when he had the sleeve in his mouth just didn't let go. He is VERY HIGH ball/tug/sleeve drive. When doing obedience here at home I now can walk him around/over/throught a group of tugs without him pulling toward them just by saying leave it and he will look back up at me, started food rewarding every time for the look up and gradually spread it out. I know this is long but trying to put all info in I can to get thoughts with plenty of info. In the end of the exercise, occasionally not everytime, after ten or so min and him sitting quietly beside a tug I will say "ok yours" and he will grab it shake it I will kick another over he will switch out we do that a couple of times then when he goes to switch once I will kick them aside tell him to leave it foose him and walk away. He has never growled or advanced at me when doing this but is totally adreniline driven at this point. Walk him til he calms down then play with him redirect him and lots of praise and put him up.

Here is where my question comes in ... Has anyone had success teaching an out to a dog that doesn't want to AT ALL? My goal is to do PSA with him. I don't know his exact lines but know the kennel he came from and its an awesome KNPV kennel. He has amazing drive, brains and a NEED to work, which we do daily and even every time we go out to potty. Would love to be able to play ball but don't want to always battle. I know he is TONS different than our Mal who we can play two ball with and have a blast. My husband will be trialing with him this summer to get his BH and hopefully his IPO1. Guess I'm kinda looking for that "off" switch people talk about. I know it's not a quick fix not looking for that. Would giving him something, Kong, in his crate give him the chewing he desires or make him possessive? I don't see a possive side to him, like guarding his food, water or anything like that. Just looking for thoughts.

Our Trainer is working with us greatly and keeps reassuring me patience and obedience and this is working. He has MANY years working with dogs in all protection sports and I trust him greatly but never can hurt to ask others that have dogs with the same brain mentality lol. We all know our Dutchies are different and I wouldn't trade my challenge boy for anything at this point.

Thank you in advance.

[Schlussdibusti]

I had the same challenge with Marco, i.e. couldn't use a tug as a reward because he wouldn't "Aus".
What eventually "fixed" it (I am sure there are other, faster, better ways) I held onto it firmly until he let go, marked it with "yes" and immediately let him have it again. He figured out that it was more fun and play this way. But it was a challenge to hold it firmly and not to let it go into a "tug event". Sometimes it took minutes, so patience and stamina were needed. I didn't do bite work until we had the "Aus" solid.

[Schlussdibusti]

P.S.: I rescued Marco when he was already a year old.

[Marko_1]

We too are doing no bite work other than the one bite so we could see if there would be handler aggression and there is none. Will definitely give this a shot have not tried it yet. Thank you. Hmmmm maybe it's the name lol

[Marko_1]

Did you use a tie back or something so you weren't trying to manage a lead at the same time

[Schlussdibusti]

No lead or anything else (connected to dog via tug)

Marco-Tug-Eva: "Aus"
Tug-Eva : "yes" , engage
Marco-Tug-Eva: "Aus"
Tug-Eva: "yes", engage
Marco-Tug-Eva: "Aus"
Tug-Eva: "yes", engage
Marco-Tug-Eva: "Aus"
Tug-Eva: "yes"

[Angitay]

Can you just wait him out? Hold the tug as firm and still as possible so that he cannot self-reward by tugging. He can't hold forever can he? As soon as he lets go, mark with a "yes" and let him bite it again. It will likely take a lot of long, really boring (and probably frustrating) reps but he should eventually realize that by letting go he actually re-starts the game. Have you watched Michael Ellis' video on playing tug with your dog? He addresses this and really goes into detail on how to play tug with your dog without it being a power struggle.