Is a Dutch Shepherd the right dog for us?

[nvd]

Hi,

Me and my fiance are in our early/mid 20s we just bought a house, and are getting married next September. We are wanting a dog, but want to pick the right one. Below is a brief story of us and our dogs..

Growing up, I had smaller dogs but always had a dog in the family. My fiances family had a black lab. When we were dating I got my fiance a wheaten terrier (we think) for christmas, he was a good dog, a lot of energy, loved playing fetch and was just a good dog, until 1 day a few years ago after my fiances family moved to a new house on a busy road he got hit. They were only in the new house for less then a week, he was only 3 yrs old. Now they have a rotti-lab who is 2 yrs old and is a awesome guard dog, listens well, and likes to cuddle! just a all around great dog. doesn't like to play fetch but likes to play tug-o-war!

anyways, we will be getting married in a year and I have always wanted a DS, 1) my back ground is dutch but the main reason is they seem to be a really smart, loyal dogs and at the same time protective. We will be starting a family in 3 or so years and want to assure a DS will be good with a baby or kids around. (good with a family) I think if the dog is full grown/trained it would be best, and no to get it when as a puppy when we have a baby already..

few questions that might help make our minds up:
-I want a male, but want him to get a long with other dogs (male). Can he be trained to get along with others? or will there always be a dominant issue?
-Will a female be just as protective/dominant as a male in there on home and to there owners?
-I have read they have a lot of energy, would 2 walks a day and throw a ball with it be enough? (obviously some days and the weekend would be more attention and playing with it)
-Are they easy to crate train?
-Any other info would be helpful.

Thanks in advance!

[katm4110]

I can't answer all if your questions but think it's VERY smart to have an adult dog before you have kids. I couldn't imagine a puppy and a baby!

We have 5 children. We adopted Stella when my youngest was 6 months old and Stella was 3. She was immediately attentive and gentle with our children.

She is VERY protective of my family and the house. We had some aggression issues with her but they all stemmed from her background and her never being socialized with people or other dogs. She is beyond loyal and was a breeze to not only train but bad habits here fairly easy to correct with the help of a trainer.

I think a DS puppy would need A LOT of exercise. Stella is 4 now and walks twice a day, plays ball, plays with kids, we work on commands and her new favorite thing to do is chase our new rescue dog Nico around the back yard.

Stella was labeled as very dog aggressive... turns out she is just barky and anxious she adjusted quickly to the new dog (a male DS hound mix)

They are great dogs I think the key is to socialize them when they are young. Our trainer said poor socialization was the root of Stella's issues.

There are some experts on this forum... trainers... breeders.... I'm just speaking as a very happy owner of a wonderful rescued DS who is a fantastic guard dog and family pet!

[johninny]

taken at face value, 2 walks a day and some ball-throwing is unlikely to satisfy 95% od DSs, unless you are talking about major, interesting outings and some really vigorous or interactive playtime. I would read a lot more on this site about what it takes to satisfy these dogs to see if that is what you have in mind. but a few are more calm and real adults perhaps less demanding.

[Stacy_R]

taken at face value, 2 walks a day and some ball-throwing is unlikely to satisfy 95% od DSs, unless you are talking about major, interesting outings and some really vigorous or interactive playtime.

I second that. For the most part, Tyson's walks are just a "warm up" unless there is some sort of training involved (e.g. obedience commands, rally work, etc). If I don't exercise his brain while we are walking, when we get home, he's just all that more ready to go. Even when I take him to the greenway (4 miles), he takes a power nap in the truck on the way home and gives me the "COOL, WHAT NOW?!?!?!!?" look when we get home.
I was sick over the weekend and, for the most part, couch-bound. Needless to say, Tyson just about drove me to I am still playing catch-up. I see a bike ride with him in my near future....

[nvd]

Thanks for the comments! Sounds to be a amazing dog/pet but just needs a lot walking/playing/attention

Does anyone know if GSD require same amount as DS? or no? I know that any dog needs to be walked/played with etc. just a matter of how much.

Thanks

[johninny]

DS needs MUCH more mental and physical work-out time, especially the mental. it would take an impossible amount of physical exercise if they are not getting the mental stimulation they need. different experience than GSD - energy and curiosity/need to explore, think, problem-solve amplified beyond anything you could expect. that is why I and others love them, but for most people it could be a nightmare of ''bad behavior'' where the breed is not really understood.

[Flying Dutchman]

Hello and Welcome,

You have many questions that require very in-depth responses but I will try and focus on a few areas. Yes, DS are very intelligent, but they are not for most people since their drive and energy level can be a lot to take on. And if that energy isn't channeled correctly there can be a very bad outcome. That requires a great deal of training, exercise, mental stimulation and ideally a "job" that they can focus on. They are working dogs in the truest sense and are way too much dog for the common home.

I have four Dutch Shepherds and one senior chow mix. Four males and one female. One intact male, everyone else has been neutered. All rescue dogs and, with the exception of one DS and the chow mix, we know their breeding and background. They all joined our family as adults or as an older puppy (female DS was 7 months when we got her) but we spent a great deal of time properly introducing and integrating them, but details on that are a whole other topic. They all get along very well but as I said, we spent a LOT of time building up to that and their relationships are something we constantly monitor and watch for issues around resources. Generalities in regard to "dominance" is not something I subscribe to as I believe that dogs need to be treated as individuals with unique temperaments and personalities (and issues) regardless of their gender. Again, a whole other topic.

You mentioned that you are attracted to a DS because they are "protective." Yes, they are often naturally protective of their handler/family but that is really a double-edged sword and goes back to how important it is to give a DS proper training and direction, especially if you have one from serious working lines.

All of my dogs are rescued because the people who initially got them couldn't deal with them for one reason or another. I tend to be very direct with people and give them an honest answer about what it is like to share your life with this breed because my four are just a sample of what happens when it doesn't go well. Give any dog you are thinking of adding to your family some serious, honest consideration to what you are up for and what your current life will allow (how much time you have, how much change you are expecting, job and family commitments, etc) and ultimately what is best and fair to the dog and to you.

One of my favorite videos to show people is below. This kind of drive doesn't go away when they are adults and it is why people here are saying that a DS needs much more time, exercise, and mental stimulation than the "average" dog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXqNl5bTCMU

[johninny]

great video for questions that a lot of people come here to ask.

[nvd]

Okay thank you for that video! makes logical sense.

Dutch Shepherd compared to German Shepherd... would a GSD require less exercise? not that we don't plan to play with the dog. We will still do min 2 walks a day (morning and evening) and then thro the ball, play with him, bike ride etc. 1. it would be good for the dog, but 2. would keep me in shape!

I really want a DS, but don't want to get one and not give it 100% exercise that it would need/want. hence the research!

thanks

[johninny]

GSD will on average require much less exercise and mental stimulation; given your plans, you might want to stick with the gsd as you and the dog may wind up happier than you and a DS.

[Stacy_R]

Dutch Shepherd compared to German Shepherd... would a GSD require less exercise? not that we don't plan to play with the dog....

I think it is awesome that you guys are doing research before you choose a dog. That being said, any working breed you choose will require..well...work on your part. I had 2 GSD's previously, both of whom had far less drive than Tyson. However, they also had 2-1/2 acres to run off energy. So who knows what they would have been like with just a standard yard. I have a friend who has a 10 month-old GSD (over 85 lbs) who has very high drive and thrives on work and training. She is up working with him many nights very late if she doesn't have the time during the day. I have another friend who has a GSD who is bored silly because he only gets his requisite 2 walks per day and has turned into a ridiculous barker because of lack of stimulation. While *most* GSD's will require less exercise than a DS, I don't think you can lump all GSD's into a "less exercise" (mentally and/or physically) category. I really think that if you guys are looking for a dog who can thrive on 2 walks a day plus some play time, you should look outside of the working breeds. Just my

[johninny]

very good point.

[LyonsFamily]

Okay thank you for that video! makes logical sense.

Dutch Shepherd compared to German Shepherd... would a GSD require less exercise? not that we don't plan to play with the dog. We will still do min 2 walks a day (morning and evening) and then thro the ball, play with him, bike ride etc. 1. it would be good for the dog, but 2. would keep me in shape!

I really want a DS, but don't want to get one and not give it 100% exercise that it would need/want. hence the research!

thanks

I think it really depends on the GSD. The Dutch Shepherd, for the most part, has remained a solid working breed, even the FCI line dogs are high drive and require work. They may be a bit softer and live well in the right active home, but the breed is still relatively new in America and really hasn't seen the great divide between show/working lines that many breeds have.

For GSDs, there have been so many conformation breeders, owners putting 2 dogs together, pet only breeders, etc, that you'll find many far removed from their original purpose lacking the drive and exercise requirements the breed was intended to have. While the breed as a whole is a working breed and needs above average exercise compared to other breeds, I think the chance of you finding a GSD to fit your household will likely be higher. If you skip the working line GSDs, there are plenty out there if you look a bit.

My suggestion would be to look at a slightly older dogs (7 months+) that has been in a good foster home and talk with the foster parent. Find out their habits, needs, tendencies, etc. It's often a crap shoot with puppies, even with excellent parents and solid foundation work. Look for a dog that is already friendly with other dogs, proven good with children, etc. You may even find one that already has basic obedience which will make your life so much easier.

Another thing to consider is that any dog will be protective if raised in your family. The attachment a dog has to their owner and household brings about an amount of protectiveness. Unless you need a serious guard dog or personal protection dog, just having a larger dog will deter off many people. I have people cross the street when I'm walking the showline standard poodle I do grooming competitions with right after being groomed. He's complete with bows, hairspray, the works. The majority of dogs bark in alarm and that's a big turn off for intruders. Remember, criminals want easy targets. A big dog around just complicates things for them.

I always advise clients to teach a bark on command if they want the additional threat, which can be taught to any dog of any breed. That's typically enough to ward off any person intending to do harm.

[Karin]

One other point is that I noticed the GSD rescues sometimes have this rating system 1-5 on energy levels. So you can actually seek out an individual that has a more moderate drive/energy. Just a thought.

[Revhendo]

GSDs can be great family dogs, but as with any working dog, they need to have a job. Most GSDs that I've known were perimeter walkers in their "off" time. They are also one of the few breeds I know that will lean into you to let you know you are their's. It's kinda cool. I gotta admit, I wasn't ready for my DS mix when I got her as a pup and it cost me a few couches, a coffee table, several hardback novels, remote controls, a couple of cell phones, etc, etc. Once I got a clue, things came around. Six years later, we're still a work in progress.

[Englishes5]

I wanted a dog for our family also. We have 3 small children and my husband travels a lot. We spend a lot of time on the water and wanted a dog that could come with us. I did lots of research and thought we found the perfect dog for us, which was a puppy that we thought was a lab/GSD. I am now pretty sure that the person who had the litter did not know what kind of shepherd she had and that it was probably a DS. Callie is now 18 months old and a wonderful dog, but she takes a LOT of supervision and stimulation. I have a great trainer who has taught me great things and I would be insane by now if I had just relied on other dog owners to tell me what to do with her. Something that has really helped me, however is the realization that the mental activity is more quality exercise for her than the physical activity. I do have to use both, however we do not have a fence. I was getting up very early every day and staying out late every night to walk her when I was not doing other family stuff, and this was becoming very tiring. (My husband did not enjoy it either). We live in coastal NC, and it is too hot and humid this time of year most days to go for miles and miles. Also my kids are home from school, so we learned from the trainer that working with her on her commands inside is just as effective, if not more, than some of the walks we were missing. The bonus to that strategy is that she is also more well behaved on walks if we practice "working" first. I had it backwards for a long time...taking her for walks to tire her out before working, and getting pulled too hard when other dogs would pass by. I am still happily looking forward to having a 2 or 3 year old dog, but she is much better now. She is great with the kids, and she is good in the house as long as I can keep her from the boys' stuffed animals and plastic toys. For that, we block off areas in the house so that she is close enough to be corrected when needed, or we put her in the crate if we can't watch her.