Have you guys ever considered a Facebook page?

[Rob C]

So, have you guys ever considered starting a Facebook page? I know social media is the big thing today, so I wasn't sure if you guys ever considered starting a Dutch Shepherd page. Something to help get information about the breed out there? That's the first place I looked for a page on before I found this forum. So I was just curious.

[johninny]

Tracer's litter has a facebook something or other so owners of the litter can keep track of everyone's progress, look, whereabouts, etc. so i was finally giving in against my better judgement, but then i had to click agree to their terms of service or agreement, etc. i clicked through to actually read to what i was to agree. TERRIFYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i was out of there never to return.

[Rob C]

Lol. I use Facebook to keep up to track with old friends and put some pictures up every now and then. I never put anything insanely personal on there. But you can set up your account to where nobody but friends can see anything. If someone happened to look on there, all you'd see is my name and profile picture. No location, posts, or anything else. I just thought it might be an idea.

[johninny]

what bothered me - aside from the fact that they have been untrustworthy about keeping people's private stuff private [ change of rules and suddenly everything people thought was private is now public has lost a lot of people their livelihoods, apparently ] - is that their terms of service state that they record everything that goes on on your computer ALL the time whether you are engaged in facebook or not. once you click ''agree'', FB is roaming your computer - all aspects of your computer - at will. i knew it would be outrageous, but that shocked even me.

[Karin]

I'm on both and my weariness of Facebook is that people don't have discussions. It is sort of here is me and my dog and this is what I did today. But the idea of talking back and forth about experiences with different training techniques or thoughts on how we present the DS to the public or ideas about training the difficult adolescent doesn't seem to happen with depth on facebook. We are limited here too but the conversations tend to be deeper here. That is why I like this format better.

Adolescent DS not kid...

[Raven]

In order for it to be effective/productive as a tool, I think the time involvement would be an issue, looking at it as an off-shoot of DSF.

[johninny]

i am not sure that the idea of getting info about the breed ''out there'' is one some of us consider desirable; that gets to the advertising issue that has been discussed 3x in the last year. i think it [ ''advertising'' ] is ok when the audience is pre-screened/self-selected to above average in its approach to high-drive or high-performing dogs, but it seems FB would be just the opposite of that. so the main message that most visitors would take away is how beautiful they are, followed by how well they train and how smart they are.

[Rob C]

what bothered me - aside from the fact that they have been untrustworthy about keeping people's private stuff private [ change of rules and suddenly everything people thought was private is now public has lost a lot of people their livelihoods, apparently ] - is that their terms of service state that they record everything that goes on on your computer ALL the time whether you are engaged in facebook or not. once you click ''agree'', FB is roaming your computer - all aspects of your computer - at will. i knew it would be outrageous, but that shocked even me.

I can guarantee that Facebook is not able to access your computer. I saw what you wrote, and decided to go look for myself. It states that anything you PUT on facebook can be used by them at any time whether you are currently logged in or not. The only way they can access your computer would be for them to install software on your computer allowing them to monitor it. Which is not only HIGHLY illegal, but any spyware software would immediately pick it up. I graduated with a degree in IT System Security. It's safe to say I'm pretty familiar with it lol. And I am OCD when it comes to security on social media, so you can believe I keep up to date on anything they change. And the ONLY people who can see what's on mine is on my friends list. Which consists of an entire 8 people lol. And some of that is only viewable by myself, or people I allow to see it.

As for putting information about the breed out there, I personally think that's something that would benefit the breed. People go out and get the dogs without finding everything they can about them. Instead of doing something like this, and talking to people who have personal experience with them, they see what you said about looks and ease of training, and get them. Then they realize they are in over their heads, and the dogs end up in rescues or the pound. I would think educating people about the breed would be a benefit rather than a detriment.

[johninny]

they specifically state they do install software that enables them to do that - and it is certainly not illegal if you have signed a document giving them permission to do so. to get to the parts that are terrifying - and even then carefully guarding language is employed - you have to keep clicking through link after link after link - but all part of the agreement. the parts i really hate are embedded in their ''data use policy''. hidden very deep is ''OTHER information we receive about you'' while in other sections there is often the qualifier ''whenever you use or are running Facebook'' , though be aware the definition of this is very broad as it applies to other companies/websites that build using a FB app or platform. but in my favorite part, the pretense that you need to be using FB disappears: ''we receive data from or about your computer, ..[etc] you use to install FB apps or to access FB, including.......the pages you visit.''

you may want to find this section to read FACEBOOK's peculiarly broad definition of "public information'' - basically, if any info about you exists anywhere else, they consider that info fair game to ''share'' even if you have marked it private. but their definition of public goes way beyond what may be in your self-perceived ''public'' or ''private'' info.

also bothersome to me are tidbits in ''how we use the info we receive'':
^ ''to make suggestions to you and other users, such as:...suggesting that another user add you as a friend because the user imported the same email address as you did,....''
^ ''we don't share information we receive about you with others unless we have: received your permission [ which you grant very broadly when you sign up ]; given you notice, such as by telling you about it in this policy.... [ this is the one that has gotten so many people in trouble even if they had read the policy, since they would really have to read it every hour to know if the rules had changed on them .]
^ ''we may enable access to public information that has been shared through our services.'' [ ''When we use the phrase ''public information''..., we mean the info you choose to make public, as well as information that is always publicly available'' - by which they seem to mean information that they can get by any other means other than tapping your ''private'' info EVEN if it is the same info as your ''private'' info ]

i read every word of their terms of use agreement and understand all too well the legalese they have deployed in abundance, though i am sure i lack ALL your technical knowledge and expertise. lacking such, but urging a laborious reading of FB's document for anyone concerned with this off-DS-topic issue, i have nothing more to say on this subject as i know nothing more and it does not concern DS.

[Rob C]

Well I sat here and read all of it. Literally every page because you peeked my curiosity. And went through every spyware and security program I have. And believe me, there's nothing on here. And they can't install something on a computer without you YOURSELF installing it. It's quite literally impossible. Not even Microsoft can remotely log on to your computer and install things. Even a highly skilled hacker can't get on to a computer and have full access to it. They may be able to access certain files and such, but they can't remotely use it and access it all. And if you agreed to terms that allowed them to kill you for not logging on in so many days, it would still be illegal for them to do so. And believe me, that would be a MAJOR constitutional violation. And yes, it is VERY illegal for ANYONE to do that, let alone a major company. If that were allowed, it would be ALL OVER every major news network around the world. The only possible way for someone to access a computer not owned by them legally is by law enforcement or government officials with a warrant. And even then, they still need physical access to the computer itself. And Facebook would immediately go under. Trust me, it's impossible. I'm by no way trying to say Facebook is absolutely safe, because it's been proven not to be in some cases. But, they still have to operate within the parameters of the law. BUT, they do make you agree that anything and EVERYTHING you post, including pictures or videos, are allowed to be used by them, until deleted from your page. That's why I NEVER put anything I don't want someone else having access to or information about.

[LyonsFamily]

There are a few DS facebook groups already. I'm on a couple, working dutch shepherds, dutch shepherd owners, the UKC Dutch shepherd page, Christie's Northwood K9 group, and NADSR has a fan page.

I was really into facebook groups for a while and they've done a lot for my businesses, but I have a hard time following posts and everyone on facebook is an apparent expert, so real advice gets hidden among stupidity. I also don't like how facebook sometimes sorts comments out of order and I have to keep clicking to view more. It makes it hard to reply to anyone but the OP.

I get on the fb groups often, but stay out of posting much, especially compared to here. The American Belgian malinois rescue page is really popular, but facebook seems to bring out the emotional extremists and the discussions don't really involve a lot a discussing.

[Rob C]

Haha fair enough. And yes, FB experts are everywhere. I was just curious why the forum didn't have one that's all.

[icvanstra]

I can answer this one pretty quickly. There is not a "Dutch Shepherd Forum" Facebook page because this is a forum. A specific format of communication. It was started primarily because a few people didn't like the LIST Format. The lists still exist on Yahoo! and don't seem to have much activity.

The format of a forum just can't be replicated on Facebook.

Also, there are numerous pages/groups on Facebook already that discuss Dutch Shepherds.

Finally, maintaining this forum already takes up too much personal time. Doubling that effort just isn't going to happen.