We assumed GSD/Mastiff, but now we aren't so sure...

[silberlied]

I need some help determining if my new puppy is a DS or not, so I think I should start at the beginning.

So we rescued our puppy Darko from a high-kill shelter in the middle of rural South Carolina. My boyfriend and I recently moved in to a dog-friendly apartment, so we decided to go rescue a new baby. I wanted a lazy apartment dog, like a Mastiff, and he wanted a crazy dog like a German Shepherd or Husky. After searching a couple weeks on Petfinder, we found our compromise in three beautiful 14-week-old German Shepherd/Mastiff puppies.




I immediately fell in love with the first puppy, called the shelter, and had them hold him until the next day when we could take the short trip to South Carolina to adopt him. When we got there, we were startled at how much bigger they were in real life than they looked in the photos, but that didn't stop us from taking the big guy home and naming him Darko. He weighed 36 pounds the day we got him, and his adult teeth were almost grown in.


Now we guess he is around 5 months old, but don't know for sure. He lost a little weight after we switched him to a good quality, natural puppy food, but has since gotten taller and gained it back. He weighs 40 pounds, is 20 inches at the shoulder, and his body is 24 inches long if you don't include his neck, head, and tail. He has long hair that lays really close to his body (not fluffy, but coarse), but I did shave it a big shorter on his body to help him with this forsaken Southern heat. I have to trim the hair between his toes at least twice a month. I've never seen such hairy feet! We also glued his ears together with Tear Mender and Breathe Right strips. They just refuse to stay up, but so far we've managed to get them into "airplane mode" instead of creased. Oh, and he is not neutered.




Sorry about the pictures. He's very lazy and won't stand for longer than 2 seconds...
So here's where my great mystery comes in. I met a trainer that has worked with police dogs, and he upon seeing Darko immediately said, "That's a Dutch Shepherd, right?!" And the owner of a small holistic food store down the road has a DS named Diesel and is almost certain Darko has some Dutch in him, if not purebred. Standing next to each other, Darko and Diesel do look very similar.

So I went home and did my research. There is a Dutch Shepherd breeder about 15 miles away from the shelter where we got Darko. Here is his website: http://dutchshepherdk9s.com/home
Coincidence? We don't think so. Anybody have any thoughts?

[Kitty_the_dog]

My puppy was 20 pounds at 10 weeks old. His ears arebalso still flopoy, they do stand erect when he is listening. The laziness doesnt sound dutch. They are usually energetic. He has the black mask of a Dutch. My puppy also has that ridge of wavy longer hair up his back but not nearly as furry ears. ..those are adorable. He has longer hair on his neck than mine as well.
He is so cute

[Mobil]

Mastiffs do come in brindle, and the face shape does not scream Dutch Shepherd to me. He's gorgeous, but his ears do look a tad bit too long to be a DSD.

Was the mastiff/shepherd mix designation just a guess on the shelter's part? Because "lazy" does not in any way describe a Dutch Shepherd, especially a purebred one.

[Dutchringgirl]

He could be so many things its really hard to tell, many breeds have brindle and big ears and floppy ears. He is a cutie pie though.

[silberlied]

Thanks, everyone! Yes, the shelter just guessed about the mastiff/GSD mix. The person who brought them in left very little information, just that they found the puppies as strays and had them for a while, but even that seemed questionable considering their age. No mention of a mother. The vet said all they see is Shepherd, and labeled him GSD, ignoring my questions about him being half mastiff, stating "he won't get as big as you thought. He's 6 months, not 4." Then they recommended doing all his vaccinations, despite him being terribly sick with kennel cough. (I'm not going back to that vet again.) All I know is that if he's a mix, he has to be a mix of two long-haired breeds, since the gene is recessive. Any ideas on brindle long hairs he could be? I'd be convinced on DS and English Mastiff if he wasn't so small still, and getting leaner every day.

As for the laziness, I meant that more as a joke because I was trying to get pictures during nap time (only time he's not playing with the cats). Just yesterday, I had him help me bring the groceries in, and he grabbed a can of tuna and took off across the field with it. I once had a whippet/GSD cross that laid around just as often, but as soon as you let him outside, he took off like a rocket. I work extensively with my guys on their house manners.

[Mobil]

All I know is that if he's a mix, he has to be a mix of two long-haired breeds, since the gene is recessive.

Not necessarily. A recessive gene can still show up in a mix. It would just mean that both parents had the gene for long hair somewhere in their line. And if we're dealing with mixes dumped at shelters by the litter, the likelihood of both parents being "pure" anything is a lot smaller, KWIM?

It's really hard to say, especially with his ears all glued up; but he could also be a GSD Plott Hound mix with that snoot. Or he could be a DSD mix.

At any rate, he's gorgeous and he's your baby, so that's all that matters, right?

[silberlied]

At any rate, he's gorgeous and he's your baby, so that's all that matters, right?

Thank you! He most certainly is my baby, and although I'm a little bummed I didn't get my big drooly long haired English Mastiff yet, I wouldn't trade my guy for anything. Even as a knucklehead goofball puppy, he's the best dog I could ask for and I honestly don't care what he is besides that I would like to better pinpoint his heritage so I can tailor his nutritional, medical, and training needs. I just want the best for him.
I'm also concerned that he might be older than the shelter said he was, since half the dogs we saw there were tested heartworm positive (and recently were euthanized). A Mastiff puppy could easily reach 40 pounds by 3 months, which means he's no risk for heartworm, but if he's Dutch Shepherd instead, could he be over 6 months already and overdue for his heartworm test? I started him on Trifexis, but this doesn't stop me from being a worried mommy.

I guess we will see what he grows up to be.

[Mobil]

Did the vet agree with the shelter's listed age of 14ish weeks when you first got him? It's easier to gauge ages in puppies because of the order the teeth are lost/come in. For instance, at 8 weeks, all baby teeth are in. Beginning at 12ish weeks, the puppy incisors start to go, and by sixteen weeks, all the permanent incisors have erupted. By six ish months, all the permanent teeth have come in.

If Darko was 14 weeks when the shelter listed him, that would put him at right around six months now. Does he have all his permanent teeth? And if so, when did you notice they were all in?

I know shelters can screw up ages, because I've seen it firsthand, but the vet should have been able to tell when you took him in for his first visit.


Puppies under 7 months don't need heartworm testing; they should be started on heartworm meds and tested six months after that, because it takes six months for evidence of heartworms to show up in the bloodstream.

Does he still have kennel cough?

[silberlied]

I believe the shelter got his age from the people who dropped the puppies off. They had them for a while, so I would trust their estimate over the vet's (mainly because he hasn't been seen by my regular vet yet). I took him to a Banfield that has a habit of making things up just to get you on their Wellness insurance plans. The shelter gave us a coupon for a free visit that also donated $30 back to the shelter, so I literally just took him there to give back to the shelter and get Trifexis and some antibiotics for his cough. So long story short, they said he's absolutely a 6 month old German Shepherd and that I should get him neutered as soon as possible. This is when he weighed as much as a typical 4 month old German Shepherd.
If we guess based on his teeth, it's difficult to pinpoint. His teeth had just all finished erupting by the time I took him home, and by now they are grown in (for the most part). He's still chewing a lot in the back like he's teething, so I think his molars might still be causing him some discomfort, but they all otherwise grew in QUICK. His canines were in, but only by a couple centimeters when I got him on June 10th. Now they are about an inch long. I did read that sometimes in larger dogs their teeth can come in as early as 3 or 4 months, so who knows? What I can say is he isn't old enough to be interested in marking (I struggle to get him focused enough to pee even twice a day) or wandering, because I have him off-leash fairly often and he stays with me. He hit a growth spurt about a month ago and lost his fat puppy shape, but now that we have him on large breed puppy food and limit his calcium, he's growing very slowly and steadily. So that's all the clues I have about his age.

I did a bit more research on variation within the breed, since Darko's disqualifying factors seem to be his soft ears (we still have hope for these things!), white chest and toes, and the thicker skin on his nose. Most Dutches have the skinny muzzle like a Malinoi (in fact, most DS dogs you see doing police work have Belgian Malinoi in their lineage), but it seems like some lines do have a shorter nose, small amount of jowel, bigger ears, and white on the chest, belly, and feet. The other Dutch Shepherd we know has huge ears and a good bit of white on him, so we aren't ignoring the possibility.
To me, Darko looks like the two Dutch Shepherds on this page, besides he has smaller ears. (Scroll past the German Shepherds to the bottom.) http://www.dogsportstrainer.com/mydogs.html
You'll see what I mean about his face.

We considered that he might just be a random brindle mix that happens to look like a Dutch Shepherd, which would explain why so many people ask if he is (or rather tell us he is, since we thought he's just a shelter mutt...silly us). But we are pretty confident he has at least some DS in him because of the long body, deep chest, taller back legs than front, long course (hard to touch even with conditioner) hair, fluff between his toes, long toes (my bf pointed out he does not have compact Mastiff hooves), pointed ears, feathers, etc. Can't wait until his winter coat grows in and we see what he's really supposed to look like. Shouldn't have shaved him, oops.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Most DS will have Mal in their blood lines, not just police dogs, as Mals were bred into the line to preserve it I believe around the 50's. The white isn't a disqualifier for the breed; it's allowed but not preferred. And I believe someone on here a while back posted a pic of a floppy eared DS. My guy's ears had troubles standing and a vet told me to massage them for 15 mins a day. It worked!

As for the fur and the hair... Have you tried looking at long haired DS pups? He could haver longer fur like Karenz's Xander. Also the dryness/coarseness of it could be due to a fish oil/vit e deficiency. The coats usually aren't coarse... Or hairy toes... But that's a short haired breed. And other dogs have similiar shepherd looking bodies with the chest and legs. Most will have longer muzzles, too short and it's not a DS. Not trying to say he's not a DS, just giving info.

Puppies are hard to tell until they start to mature. What throws me is his bulk and his build seems a bit off, but again, angles and growing puppies can cause all sorts of misinterpretations. As for the teeth, my guy had his teeth coming in at 3.5 months and didn't start marking until 7-8 months. I was so proud when he started! Weird I know. Either way he is one adorable puppy and he's your's, so that's all that matters. As long as you tailor the training, exercise, and dietary stuff to him personally he'll be fantastic! And keep us updated - we love puppies!!!

[silberlied]

And keep us updated - we love puppies!!!

I certainly will! Thank you so much for the tips. And I will start massaging his ears! I honestly don't mind floppy ears, and I know even with full Shepherds sometimes it can take a while, but his ears do seem to get red and sore and dirty with wax where they fold in on themselves. Poor guy.

I guess he does look a bit tubby in the pictures, now that you mention it. I just switched his food over to Wellness Large Breed Puppy, so maybe his coat will get softer and start to lay right with proper nutrition (before I shaved him, it stuck to him like it was glued). I might start mixing a little almond milk into his oatmeal too for Vitamin E. Just not too much he's overloaded with Calcium. I'm having trouble finding good pictures of long-haired puppies, but plenty of adults. He has the fluffy ears, but not much else right now. It'll be difficult to compare him anyway until his winter coat grows in I suppose.

Thanks again!