AlphaK9Kennels in South Carolina

[Grayhorse67]

Has anyone purchased a dog from this kennel? Bobby Fuller is the owner and he sell Blue Dutch Shepherd with Carlos Van Vos as his #1 Stud dog. His stud dog pedigree seem to be very good. Any info would be great from co-members.

[Owly]

Any breeder that focuses solely on looks/coat colors is one to be cautious about (from my PoV). Granted, that might not be his only thing. But "Specializing in Dutch Shepherds & Blue Dutch Shepherds " is his main sales pitch. Limited information on his dogs. The only dog you can find information on is Carlos. None of his bitches are listed. I mean, he could just be -that- good that he doesn't need to list details like that on a website and runs by word of mouth. Plenty of really good breeders run by word of mouth alone. I would talk to the man yourself and ask the basics.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

I wouldn't buy from them. There's a select few RARE pups from them I would get and none of them I would recommend for a first time handler, service dog work, nor any sort of work that requires constraint around people. The sire isn't bad but throws hella insane pups which are very hard and aggressive. Heard some other stuff too on the corso breeder side but still would advise to stay very well away.

[Grayhorse67]

Yes, that was my main concern--there is no information on none of his bitches, I have raised hard dog before but not knowing anything about the pedigree of both parents concern me. Owly, you are correct based on our conversation last--his most important concern is what he calls the "WoW factor" looks. He said people are more impressed with how a dogs looks because all of his dogs will bite and track no matter what he don't even have to do puppy evaluations on the dogs because he already know what they will do. I was trying to find previous people who had purchased dogs from him before but I have come up empty so far hence the reason I reached out to the family here.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

From what I understand he doesn't own any bitches but instead pays for the dam to carry. Carlos himself throws uneven tempered dogs. The aggression factor in them is not one I would say is good for any kind of people work except biting the daylight a out of them. Very civil. His other dog's are the same caliber. He breeds for looks and for genetically hard ass dogs. While his pedigrees could be better, lines even tougher, these are still dogs I would not recommend to anyone unless they wanted insanity and serious aggression.

[Grayhorse67]

I do want a serious personal protection dog as I live in the city, but also wanted a dog who could get me some titles in PSA or IPO. Thanks so much for your comments they are very helpful.

[WWDC]

I am poised to purchase a puppy in the next week or so . I am looking for strong protection qualities. Does anyone have or know of a puppy form AlphK9Kennels that have good drive and protective and working qualities

[Owly]

I believe you'll find your answer above. Common answer seems to be insane, serious bsns, hardass dogs. Not for the beginner or even intermediate malinois/dutch owner.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Check the dam Carlos is paired with. From knowing a few of his pups my response is: if you've never had a dog that seriously wants to eat you and wouldn't stop, don't get a Carlos pup. For the right purpose, the right dan, the right everything, they ain't bad. Also, keep in mind, blues are a genetic deviance which means if you're consistently throwing blues every litter there's something wrong. Even the lines that throw blues will throw them every so often, not every litter.

[Livetoride]

Not sure if anyone has met Carlos personally. I have met him a few times and demeaner was a lot different than I was expecting. I had no problem petting him and neither did my kids. Do you think he has just mellowed out with age or what.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

I have met and seen some of his offspring. Carlos is neutral to people unless working - so you can't judge him by just "petting him". What I'm about to say isn't to talk down to you or anyone who wants/is buying a Carlos pup but more just info on him and what he can produce.

Carlos is the brother to Wibo Van Leeuwin, who is a very flammable (meaning easy to trigger) and VERY hard. I have Wibo lines in my guy and they are NO JOKE. Both are Rocky grandsons. Carlos is very handler hard, which means he comes up the line, he attacks handler, and he is willing to fight the handler on things. From Dick Van Leeuwin who trained with Carlos: "Carlos is, like his brother Wibo a dominant male, I knew him well when he was with his owner and trainer here in Holland, Gerrit Vos. He has always been an honest dog with a "short fuse" in training... I see him being sold over and over because he is too difficult for them AND they have accidents with him." (https://www.facebook.com/vanleeuwendutc ... 5157757571) From our own forum: "Carlos has extreme retrieve drive and over the top possessiveness for any object. He has incredible full hard pushing grips and very high fight drive for the man. He has a high level of civil aggression in the work, while remaining neutral to strangers when not working. Carlos has a very impressive guarding behavior for the decoy and other objects. His nerves are solid and his drives to work are amazing." (https://www.dutchshepherdforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=222) Others comment on past litters of Carlos' that "Expecting compact, powerful, hard hitting, hard biting dogs, with solid nerves, high hunt and retrieve, highly possessive traits, and very real aggression in the work." Check this link where Alpha K9 copied a bit of the bio on Carlos: http://www.workingdutchies.com/males.html. He's known as a "brutal, serious dog". He is a great producer and passes these qualities onto his offspring.

What does this mean for the pups? High drive pups are more likely to develop aggression and see young children and animals as "fun things to bite". They have a natural "spark" to walk up to a man and eat him alive. They are confident and will overtake you if you are unsure. They will come up at you, they will attack you, they will try to eat you, and they will not stop. The AGGRESSION factor in these dogs is off the chart, and with their solid nerves, high drive, and possession and flammability, I would NOT recommend them for a family environment. These are the dogs that need to work as MWD, high level sport dogs, or dogs with serious jobs.

All of these traits are not ones that people see when they walk up to Carlos. Carlos has a LOT of fantastic training on him. He is supposed to be neutral to strangers and not to seem "aggressive" or "unstable" unless ordered. These traits are not ones average buyers will notice unless asking specific questions, looking at all the videos of him, talking to others who know him/have bought his puppies, or ask to see him work in specific conditions. However, these traits make him highly dangerous to inexperienced handlers and living with him is not a joke. You can train the dog to do anything with enough repetition and on familiar ground; you can make a bad dog look good and a highly dominant dog look easy to handle. Like I said earlier, Carlos is a fantastic stud and a good producer, but produces traits I would NEVER recommend to a novice handler, someone new to the breed, or someone without much experience. Not even if he was paired with a lower drive female which is unlikely - as a stud Carlos has the blood to produce very excellent dogs for the right working environment and would be paired with dams that would increase these traits and not water them down, unless it was for a specific reason. That's just my two cents worth and I mean in no way to imply you have not done your research or due diligence. I've had a friend who had a Carlos puppy (it was his 4th DS) and he had to sell it as at a year it had severely attacked him and eaten animals. This is what can happen when the dog isn't properly managed; and I don't mean in training alone, but in drive, environment, and work.

[Tripmomma]

This may belong somewhere else...and may be considered rude. Why are people breeding such hard dogs? I jumped the GSD ship because people had ruined what the breed was with poor breeding. I was really hoping the DSD would not go down in flames as well. Why can't you just breed up their natural abilities...why do people have to go so insanely over the top? This is a 100 year old farm dog breed...that now I would guess 75% couldn't be trusted to perform any farm duties. People talk crap about how the GSDs were ruined, Dobe's ruined...can they not see they are doing the same to the Dutch Shepherd, maybe not in the same way...but this breed was not intended to be landsharks. I don't know...just my thoughts of the day.

[cordeliandemon]

there are alot of farm breeds already popular, foolproof and widely in use like collies, cattle dogs and old english sheepdogs to name a few.
from what ive read in the past the DS almost died out after the war a. because soldiers were eating them and b. because sheep were no longer being widely farmed in the netherlands so they became redundant. its really nothing more than a case of adapt and survive, if the DS hadnt been singled out for its extreme intelligence, sense of smell, strength, agility and intimidating appearance for work like the army, law enforcement and sports i dont think it would even be around to the small extent it still is today.
the "market" for sheepdogs is oversaturated, and everything evolves, so the dogs have become harder and more adept at their new purpose. otherwise they wouldnt have one.
maybe in the beginning they wernt looking for land sharks in the breed , but i dont see the any countries military having much use for herding chickens either

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Dogs bred for different purposes. It's also important to realize in the US they're mainly used as sport/LE/military dogs, and the US likes to hype up "aggressive" traits, so a lot of the lines are bred for people looking for hard/tough all around dogs to perform their jobs. There's not a whole lot breeding for "active family pet" but that doesn't mean there aren't any... you just have to really look and be careful in selecting/go with an older dog and understand the breed isn't a lab/GSD cross. Over in the Netherlands they are are bred to work - military, LE, or farm dog, or sport... their programs focus more on "all around" dogs versus the US's focusing on "hard" dogs. However, importing a dog from the Netherlands doesn't mean you automatically get a better dog - there's been stories of people buying dogs from Holland and importing and the dog was a dud or too aggressive or not what was advertised. Not because they don't have good dogs but maybe because they think what Americans are looking in a dog for is "funny" and just sell them dogs that they don't want anymore knowing they'll believe the hype and that "Holland has the best dogs" without fact checking. Or maybe something happens to the dog via shipping, or maybe it's handler/trainer's fault... Too many variables. No concrete experience with this and honestly I've only heard stories that seem to be fifty fifty good and bad.

[Mobil]

I know Chercar has begun offering DSD pups that are more geared toward being active family pets than land sharks.

[Owly]

I know Chercar has begun offering DSD pups that are more geared toward being active family pets than land sharks.

Yep!
Depends on the litter and isn't always a guarantee that you'll have a "family" pet come out. Since she tests her pups before they're paired. They've done away with the waiting list(It apparently worked up into years worth of being on the list, 800+ people I think), so now if you're interested in one of their puppies you have to stay on top of their pairings and due dates.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Which is more how other breeders run... it sorta forces people to look into pedigrees and have a logical discussion with the breeder about what they want, the dogs should be producing, and gives the breeder a better idea of where to send pups. Takes a bit more time than just "going down the list" and doing interviews but I think overall it's more efficient in terms of long term placement for the puppies.

I've heard some of the more sport/working dog community complain about Cher Car breeding more "active family pets" and moaning about it's the start of the end, but honestly, if you look at the pedigrees of her dogs, a lot are the sisters/brothers to dogs other people are breeding. The capacity to do the work is there, she's just breeding dogs with "calmer" temperaments... but again, there's some people who have gotten her dogs and hated them because they were "nerve bags" in their words. Handler error or dog temperament problem? No one knows for sure as it's easy to mess up a puppy. Maybe they got the "dud" pup out of the litter (as sometimes there is one)?Others have her dogs and are thriving in UKC/AKC sports. There's also the possibility that 2 breeding "calmer" dogs who may have more nerve issues than, say, a "calmer" and a harder temperament dog with better nerves together, may produce more "nervy" pups. I've never had one of her dogs and I know a few who have her dogs on the forum love them to death and swear by them. The one dog here who's a Cher Car dog is night and day from a dog from a (I believe) Land of Oz dog - both are in sports but the Land of Oz dog is doing much better in it than the Cher Car dog, but the Cher Car dog is a better house dog, I believe the owner said. Again, POVs in the multinational view of the DS. I personally have a tiny bit of an issue for "down breeding" a dog meant to work and DOES work for a family pet, but, that's me and I know that there are cases where having a DS with a bit lower drive is more beneficial, so I can see the good of it too. I hate seeing more breeders jump on the bandwagon of "calmer" who aren't putting as much care into pairings as Cheryl is.

[k9lexi]

Im jumping in only because cher car was mentioned. Lexi is a cher car pup out of Lothar and Luna born sept 2014. Love her to death now but there was a phase when I dreaded coming home from work. Glad we both got thru that period ... she has a super high ball drive and just loves to play anything. I had made a comment awhile back about how she would tolerate loving. Maybe tolerate was the wrong word but now she LOVES giving and receiving love. She is riding in the back seat of the truck and will periodically pop her head over.the seat by ours to get a view from the front, to get some loving, and give kisses. Last weekend worked on dealing with crowds people came over loved on her and if they put their face close to hers she would give kisses I would never put my face near a dog I don't know but that is just me. it is amazing how she keep changing for the.better. I would definitely go to cher car for another pup. I'm very satisfied.

[Mark77]

I have a land of Oz Dog, Riddick. He's got Van Leeuwin Robbie, Van Leeuwin Rocky, Rambo, Arko, Rudie Pegge, a host of other very hard lines in him. He's calm in his demeanor with people and very loving with his family which is why Cher Car bred him to her female. Perhaps that is what someone was referencing as "pets" which is not the case.

The only thing Riddick ever did prior to last year was obedience. Then last year I started training him briefly in protection. I knew he had those lines in him but never bothered to explore that with him. He's explosive. He's hitting with all four off the ground as they should. Currently I'm focusing on training my Mal pup but will start working Riddick again this winter.

My point, I don't think there are "pet" lines with KNPV dogs but perhaps some dogs with less drive than others. The blood lines are there for sure, even if just under the surface so to speak.


Mark

[love dogs]

I did and the dog is over the top agressive. I love the dog and will not get rid of him --but he is the most agressive dog you have ever seen when it comes to other dogs--he started showing signs of agression at 13 weeks! I have paid for behaviorlists, specialized personal training for him, Fiesty Fidos classes--he is on doggie prozac and thyroid medicine and is now at away training for 5 months. I will do everything for this dog and will not put him down or give up on him--I love him so very very very much. He is great with people and with my other dog (I know strange but they have been together since he was 8 weeks) but with outside dogs he is more agressive then you have every seen. I have been given the recommendation to put him down by more than 5 trainers. He is smart, very smart, atheletic--very atheletic and I can train him but no matter what I try I cannot break him of this agression. Being smart and atheltic is great except when you have an agressive dog then it is very dangerours. I had a doberman that I thought was agressive untill I got this dog--he was a pussy cat compared to him. It is the most heartbreaking thing I have ever gone through. He is out of his mind around other dogs and so stressed out and out of control and no one can handle him. I will never give up on him but please beware I do not want anyone to ever have to go through this. I am a VERY experienced dog owner---dobermans, German Shepards etc....I don't need a perfect dog I would be happy if he had to wear a muzzle outside of the house but was controllable--he is not... the experts say they have never seen anything like it. I did my research I talked to these guys over and over again--and now I am in a horrible position. I actually almost bought a DS from another breeder but saw one bad review and backed out and went here--what a horrible mistake. I was thinking about my dog today away at training and decided to google to see if anything about the breeder came up out of curiousity and found this and was compelled to respond. Please send my puppy well wishes and stay away from this breeder. I have never written a bad review ever but this is too important not to say something