Hey from the beach

[Christie M]

just to update a little, I had him walking really well on the leash just a little bit ago. I had to stop about every ten steps for the first mile, but then he got the picture and walked beautifully besides me for the most part. Occasionally felt the need to take off in front, but I would just stop and wait for him to come back to my side before continuing.

One thing that does not fix is squirrels. I have never seen a dog so intent on killing squirrels. He will not be distracted by stopping, leash corrections, or luring with food. I am pretty sure he is gonna choke himself unconscious going after those buggers. Other small animals dont seem to bother him too much, though at least. He alerted to a cat, but didn't attempt to chase it.

Any suggestions for the super squirrel drive?

Hey there,

I am glad that he settled in - atleast for the walking. I think he was just testing his boundaries with the pulling and seeing what he could get away with. He wasn't a puller here.

As far as the squirrels - well honestly, I have never seen that intense behavior. We just don't have squirrels anywhere around here I think they are a bit too smart to hang out at this striped ranch. He was intensely interested in my cats. He never hurt them, but as I mentioned, I didn't quite trust him either.

I have had him on a pinch collar before and I don't think that will be a problem for him if you want to try it. I do think its a good idea to work on attention games. However, I think you could carry a T-Bone with you and when it comes to the competing motivations of steak vs. squirrel, you will likely find that steak looses. So once you have the foundation of behavior (You will look at me) in absence of the distraction, then you probably will have to introduce some correction to say "No matter how much you don't want to, you WILL look at me."

How are the nights going? Has he kicked you out of the bed yet??

[Kristie E]

I am glad that he settled in - atleast for the walking. I think he was just testing his boundaries with the pulling and seeing what he could get away with. He wasn't a puller here.

I LOVE how they test drive their new people!!!

As far as the squirrels - well honestly, I have never seen that intense behavior. We just don't have squirrels anywhere around here I think they are a bit too smart to hang out at this striped ranch. He was intensely interested in my cats. He never hurt them, but as I mentioned, I didn't quite trust him either.

I have had him on a pinch collar before and I don't think that will be a problem for him if you want to try it. I do think its a good idea to work on attention games.I did start Gwen on the attention games prior to any real distractions, good point though. Although Gwen is so food driven that the rest of the world disappears when the food comes out. However, I think you could carry a T-Bone with you and when it comes to the competing motivations of steak vs. squirrel, you will likely find that steak looses. So once you have the foundation of behavior (You will look at me) in absence of the distraction, then you probably will have to introduce some correction to say "No matter how much you don't want to, you WILL look at me."

How are the nights going? Has he kicked you out of the bed yet??Is this a breed thing? I thought it was just Gwen, she wants to be so close that when you move over she just moves with you until you on the tiniest sliver of bed space imaginable .. and of course there are the multiple face washing at periodic moments during the night.

[Breaking Bombs]

Lol, no problems in the bed. I've been having him sleep on a dog bed at the foot of my bed instead of up in the bed with me. He did wake me up last night by throwing up in the corner but that is probably mostly because I don't have his old food and started him on a brand new diet. Not to mention different water, different everything. I'm sure that will go away soon.

He is still a little pully on the leash. I guess I kinda made a mistake the first night when I met him by not start right then, and now I have to make up some ground. I'm sure he'll be heeling nicely by this week though.

He apparently is already a little attached to me. My wife commented he was very upset last night when I went out to pick up dinner. He kept running back and forth between the front windows and when she took him out to pee, he would just run the fence line. I guess he settled down shortly before I came back, but ran right down stairs as soon as I walked in.

I took him to a small obedience class this morning. Worked on some attention training around other dogs and kids. Then spent the last 20min or so playing with the agility obstacles. I got him to go over the jumps easily and through the hoops with only a little hesitation. After a little work he took to the tunnel nicely as well. He also did the see-saw once, but seemed a little spooked after it tilted and jumped off right as it hit. Didn't want to do that one again. Also the bridge (looks like a thin bridge) he tried, but lost his footing a few times and decided he didn't like it after that. Couldn't convince him to go through the collapsible tunnel, he just did not trust it. He did follow the treat through the poles, but didn't really get it, I don't think. But he really seemed to like jumping. It was convenient too because he loves his kibble (I think more than his treats) so I was able to feed him his entire breakfast throughout the class and agility work.

He also seemed to do well with the other dogs, if not maybe a little too excited. But no aggression from what I could see. He was manageable though, unlike yesterday at the pet store. He wanted to sniff every single dog and toy there. And would not relax. But we are working on that and next time he should be much more well behaved.

[Raven]

Congratulations to the new family! He looks like he's settled right in and comfortable in his new home. There's nothing like rescues!

You may want to consider that the more important the task (recall, leave it, not killing something), the higher the value of the reward. You may find, as I have, that strengthening the "leave it" will work on many other levels down the line. He has a lot going on right now, so maybe gving him some simple tasks that he can be successful with easily and quickly combined with work on recall and leaving it is enough right now. As he gets to know you and your wife and your expectations....

My Thor's leave has gotten very strong; I use it for a lot of things--it keeps it simple (not a million commands for every reaction) and he gets that whatever it is he's doing needs to stop. Animals on the television, for example. But as a result, animals on television don't prove a distraction as they once did.

I bought a battery-operated "weasel" to work with in the backyard to reinforce his gestopo tactics with squirrels, birds, etc.
Live in a snow-belt so wasn't able to use it when I bought it this winter, but the plan is to start with him on-lead while the weasel (he will not have an opportunity to know it isn't real) is "running" down by the woods; what he's learned in regard to focus and leaving it (etc.) will be used to shape his behavior with the weasel.

(I feel your pain...tee-hee.)

So glad that you and your wife are so happy with him. And you're right: he is a handsome man!

[Christie M]

He did wake me up last night by throwing up in the corner but that is probably mostly because I don't have his old food and started him on a brand new diet. Not to mention different water, different everything. I'm sure that will go away soon.

Hey. I sent a bag of food on the transport with him?!! Did they not give it to you? I'm sorry. I am sure that would upset his stomach. Poor pumpkin

[Breaking Bombs]

I guess they must have forgotten to give the food to me. I did get a bone and a squirrel kong filled with kibble though. He has seemed to really love his new kibble though at least, enough to want to re-eat it after he threw it up , lol. I didn't let him, but he seemed to think it was a good idea.

Today was quite the day for him. A backpack walk in the morning followed by an obedience class filled with GSDs and some agility time. Then a few hours later off to walk a 4mi trail around a lake with my aunt and her hound mix. Then back to my aunts house to meet my uncle and have some play time with cheyenne (the hound mix). Tons of new people, new dogs and exercise today. Not to mention his entire meals today came from my hands while he worked for it. He is exhausted now and passed out on the floor.

I worked on his leash skills on the trails today. There were tons of people and other dogs, so it wasn't the easiest, but he was pretty well behaved. I am trying to work him on heel now instead of just walking loosely. I think he is getting the hang of it alright, but often keeps going ahead if I slow down my pace.

I also worked on a few commands/tricks today. Sit he knows very well, and stay/wait he seemed to get a lot better with as the day went on. He comes very nicely off of a stay, and from nearby, but I have not tried it from a distance yet when is doing something else. He is getting better about leave it when I hold food in front of his face, but he still focuses intently on the food. To combat that I am working look, to get him to look at my face or chest instead of whatever else is around.

I also noticed something interesting today. I was messing with him and while standing I spread my arms out like an Iron Cross and jumped up to put his paws on my shoulder. I found it curious and tested it again a few minutes later with the same result. He hasn't jumped once before this, so I wonder if it was taught to him before? Either way I've decided to attach the command word "hug" to it, and work it into our training. As long as he only does it on command, I think it is great.

Christie, any commands or tricks I haven't mentioned that he may already know that I can work work on without starting from the very beginning?

Tomorrow will be our first big test. He will be left alone most the day while I am off at work. I am going to give him a nice jog before I leave and leave him in a room with multiple toys, a bed, and two puzzle to eat toys (buster cube and buddy squirrel). It does have windows to the street to occupy him, and no furniture other than a crate, which will be open, but I won't put him in it, since he hates them. I know he has some separation anxiety so I hope it isn't too bad. I may throw a camera in one day to see how he acts after I leave. I would be curious to know.

Either way though, I really love this dog, and am so happy to have gotten him. I am often very stressed, but all of that goes away when I am working with him. I have a feeling I needed him more than he needed me, lol.

[leih merigian]

Nick,

Such great news and so much progress in such a short time. Sounds like you have a great match there. And, he's gorgeous!

Please be careful about leaving him with toys during the day, anything that can be torn up and possibly eaten, until you are certain about what he'll ingest and what he won't. My 9 month old's mission in life right now is to tear everything up and then start to eat the pieces...so I am very careful about what I leave with her when she's alone and crated or in an Xpen.

I'm sure you're having a hard time keeping your mind on work today!

[Breaking Bombs]

You're right about thinking about work. I am a little worried for him. He opened the door to the room before I was even down the hallway, so I had to tie it to a door across the hallway to keep him in :/

I don't think I left him with anything dangerous. The buddy squirrel, a rawhide, to rope toys and I think a nylabone. I hope I didn't make a mistake

[Breaking Bombs]

Just a quick update that he was fine when I got home. Very excited to see me, but no real problems. His food was gone from both the buddy squirrel and buster cube, the closet door was opened and his toys were strewn around a little. Also he ate most of his rawhide, which I found interesting, since he hadn't chewed on anything up to now.

Still having some leash problems. Distractions are very very high where I live and I can't seem to keep him heeling for more than a few steps usually. I've been using leash and voice corrections when he pulls ahead, as well as stopping the walk until he stays still. At other times I will work with him on leash in the backyard (where there are much fewer distractions) and have him walk at heel and click and treat when he walks well there. He seems to do pretty well overall in the back yard, but as soon as we get on the sidewalk, he just goes into prey mode and won't behave. I am sure the neighborhood thinks I am crazy for stopping every 20ft and jerking my dogs leash all the time... no one here seems to know how to walk a dog at all.

So any advice on heeling on (or off) lead that worked particularly well for you?

[cake73]

Congrats! He certainly is a handsome fellow!

A prong collar can be likened to "power steering" for a dog. Without corrections, Kaya just walks better with it on. If I weren't so lazy, I'd work with her walking without it. It might be a useful starting tool for you, though.

[Dutchringgirl]

I would agree on the prong collar too, any time he stepped in front or out of the heal position give him a quick POP back into position. After doing it for a gazillin times and he has it, then you can start to work off collar, but I would still have a long line to be safe unless he defiantly wont go anywhere

[leih merigian]

[quote="Breaking Bombs"]Just a quick update that he was fine when I got home....Still having some leash problems. Distractions are very very high where I live and I can't seem to keep him heeling for more than a few steps usually. quote]

First, great news about how well he did on his own during the day.

As far as leash walking and distractions and such, Nick, you've gotta realize he just came home with you! I surely belive the attachment process has begun already, but still, it takes time for a new dog to settle in and learn what the rules and expectations are, who you are, how you are, etc.

One thing I've always found helpful is to make sure the dog has had some good exercise before asking them to behave well on leash. Fetching in the yard, perhaps some tug, etc., to take the edge off a bit helps a lot. Otherwise, I find it can take up to 20 minutes for that edge to wear off enough for them to settle down and behave well.

Also, and this one is exhausting, you need to be more interesting than all the distractions. Talk to him, keep him focused on you, and reward that focus. You'll find out how exhausting that is (to keep up that being more interesting thing) and then extrapolate...that's how hard it is for him to stay focused on you and his job of walking on leash well.

Perhaps you should consider having two different cues...one for just loose leash walking, one for more formal heeling, and leave the more formal stuff for a while yet, at least, out in the world. If he puts tension on the lead, stop (as you are) and don't move a thing, until the pressure lessens, or even, until he returns to your side-ish. Don't give any verbal cues or anything...it's his choice. Does he want to keep moving ahead? (I'd guess that's a yes.) Alternatively, he gets ahead of you farther than you want, turn around and go the other way. Don't jerk unnecessarily, just be unpredictable and go the other way, or sideways, or whatever. Do a lot of that anyway, even when he is behaving, and reward him for paying attention enough to keep up with you (it becomes part of being more interesting than what else is out there).

One thing is for sure...you have to be totally unmindful of what anyone out there thinks of you! If you are staying focused on your dog, then you won't notice them much, anyway .

Get a training vest if you don't have one already. I love the photographer vests...18 pockets . Lots of places for toys and treats and poop bags and etc., and you'll look more professional (to yourself ) and feel less conspicuous when out in the world with him (well, maybe you won't feel less conspicuous, but it will be clear to all that you are serious about training your dog, and people often respect that).

Above all, remember to make everything as fun as possible for the both of you.

[Christie M]

OMG - GREAT advice Leih!!

I'm not opposed to him being on a correction collar because I KNOW how very strong and big he is. But I have to agree with Leih. He just got there. Bond up, use the motivational obedience that you know he has (I didn't know about hug, but he would put his front feet up only when invited) and slowly build from there. The prong collar will make walking easier, but I would not enforce a strict heel command for a whole walk. Heck, I don't even do that with my own dogs. I give them their head, let them walk in front, beside, behind...where ever as long as they are not putting pressure on the leash. If they do I go in the opposite direction and give a correction - but the correction is for applying leash pressure, not getting out of position.

When I ask for a formal position, I expect it. But typically I have taught it at home in absence of distraction and then I only use it occasionally to practice and remind - or when I really need it to move past big distractions later on. I believe that walks are supposed to be physically and mentally stimulating. Part of mental stimulation is the 1000s of smells they encounter along the way. If they can't sniff, then they are missing a HUGE part of the walk.

[Breaking Bombs]

guess I should explain, so I don't come off too expectant of my new boy. I realize he is new to me and we havent fully bonded yet. A lot of my questions are geared towards the future, just in case. I like to be prepared for everything, lol. I mean I researched dogs for almost a year before actually getting one, just because wanted to be sure I knew what I was getting into.

On walks on don't actually expect him to heel the whole time. I just do it for parts of the walk, but I do expect him not pull at all (although I know it will take a little time and work; he is getting better!). Also, my current expectation of a heel is certainly by no means a competition heel. It is really I just want him to walk right next to me on my left side, somewhere between his head and hips. I don't ask or expect him to look at me (unless I tell him "look" ) and and follow in step with every turn.

I guess I am just excited about dog ownership, and want him to be the most awesome dog ever. I know he is doing great so far, and he is very very smart, so I will chill a little with seemingly constant questions and concerns

Thank you all so much for the advice so far though. It is all really great.

[leih merigian]

I guess I am just excited about dog ownership, and want him to be the most awesome dog ever. I know he is doing great so far, and he is very very smart, so I will chill a little with seemingly constant questions and concerns

No, don't! There's nothing dog folks like more than discussing dogs, and for you to be so interested, to have done so much homework before eveng getting Brutus, well, that's just outstanding. We want to help you be as successful as you can be!

Also, I agree with Christie that a prong may be a good tool for you in a while. But initially, try your best to not have to do more physical corrections than really necessary.

Another tool you may want to consider in the meatime is a head halter. My current first choice is a brand called Comfort Trainer, which I belive fits better than the Gentle Leader or Halti. You have a lot of leverage with a head halter that you don't have with a neck collar; you don't give leash corrections with it (that can damage the neck), but you can gently redirect the head, which redirects the body (the body goes where the head goes), when/if you need to, and if he decides to try to take off after something, he won't pull your arm off or you off your feet.

So, stick around and ask everything you're interested in knowing...we're glad you're here

[Breaking Bombs]

I've heard a lot of negative things about the head halters. More than probably any other collar or leash device (even prong collars which most unknowing people find horrifying), and to be honest, i've never seen a dog happy to have one on. They may not be as bad as they are made out to be, but I think I will go with a prong collar before one of those (I've also just started reading up on the proper wear and use of those). For now though I will see what kind of progress I make with my normal slip lead. I may need to invest in that though when I try to train him for some competitive stuff.

On an interesting note, I had to stay at work today for about 10:30hrs . So of course I wasn't surprise to see that Brutus peed in his room by the time I got back. But the interesting part was that he opened the crate (it was closed but not latched), and peed on the plastic tray instead of on the carpet. What an incredibly smart dog . Hopefully I won't have to leave him alone that long often, but it is really cool to know he knows the plastic is better than the carpet. He also managed to completely pull the tube out of the buster cube, which I don't know how he did, since I have trouble with it, lol.

[Kristie E]

Please keep telling us stuff and asking questions. We all LOVe to talk dogs.

I love that your boy peed in the crate!!! Yes they are so smart be careful what you teach him.

I used a gentle leader on Gwen very briefly before I moved to a prong collar. She would get too excited and jump around like a jack rabbit on the end of the leash and it was scary...

[Christie M]

I've heard a lot of negative things about the head halters. More than probably any other collar or leash device (even prong collars which most unknowing people find horrifying), and to be honest, i've never seen a dog happy to have one on. They may not be as bad as they are made out to be, but I think I will go with a prong collar before one of those (I've also just started reading up on the proper wear and use of those). For now though I will see what kind of progress I make with my normal slip lead. I may need to invest in that though when I try to train him for some competitive stuff.

On an interesting note, I had to stay at work today for about 10:30hrs . So of course I wasn't surprise to see that Brutus peed in his room by the time I got back. But the interesting part was that he opened the crate (it was closed but not latched), and peed on the plastic tray instead of on the carpet. What an incredibly smart dog . Hopefully I won't have to leave him alone that long often, but it is really cool to know he knows the plastic is better than the carpet. He also managed to completely pull the tube out of the buster cube, which I don't know how he did, since I have trouble with it, lol.

LOL. I have NO idea why he did that. I'm glad he went on the plastic, but can't give you any real explanation for that. When he was confined to a crate (rarely or at night), he was completely clean in it. Weird

Honestly, I am a big fan of head collars and typically start my puppies on them for the early stages of socialization. I HATE being pulled, but I don't like to give corrections when I am still teaching behaviors (that's just my opinion). I have found that the head collars work well if you put the time into conditioning them to them. It certainly does create power stearing- but it takes some patience.

That being said, if he is pulling on you - a prong collar or head collar is going to be MUCH safer for him than a slip or choke. A prong collar is going to be self correcting to some degree. A head collar you just can't correct on - its bad for their neck. But it naturally provides better control. Slips and chokes can cause some tracheal/larynx damage if used too much for corrections or dogs drag into it. I'm sure you're using it correctly! But just a head's up.

[Dutchringgirl]

what about a regular harness? Do you guys find it does, or dosnt give much in the way of the dog understanding what is being asked, Ex. if he pulls will the harness correction mean anything to them? Im just thinking......... If the neck collars will damage their throat, a harness could be another alternative?

[leih merigian]

what about a regular harness? Do you guys find it does, or dosnt give much in the way of the dog understanding what is being asked, Ex. if he pulls will the harness correction mean anything to them? Im just thinking......... If the neck collars will damage their throat, a harness could be another alternative?

I started Geyser on a harness, when she was a puppy. It was very handy initially, but I stopped using it after a short while.

IMO, the harness is to keep the neck from getting desensitized, which was my goal. But, you can't really correct with a harness, and they can really pull with them, too (that's why you use a harness for weight pulling, or conditioning the dog to pull to strengthen the rear assembly ).

Anytime a dog pulls, the opposition reflex is going to engage...they will pull against any pressure against them. That's what you use to your benefit in doing restrained recalls...you hold the dog, the dog pulls against the restraint, then release the dog to charge to its handler. That's using the opposition reflex in a positive manner. But, the dog isn't really getting a correction when it pulls against a harness, as your question seems to ask. It's just getting thwarted in a manner that will cause it to pull harder.

They do have no-pull harnesses, but I have no experience with them (ditto the no-jump harnesses). I prefer to train the right behavior, and if I need help in management, use the head halter and/or prong.

There is one other benefit to the head halters that hasn't been mentioned, and that is that the halter fits over naturally calming points on the dog's head. So, you'll get calmer behavior just by virtue of having the head halter on, from the pressure on the calming points.

And Nick, I sympathize, with you! Regardless of the tool, there are a gazillion different opinions and viewpoints out there. Wading thru them can be a real PITA. Just keep wading (I know you will ).