?

[ralbucks]

One of my neighbours said that his mother rescued a dog that looked just like mine (meaning brindle) and that was a "practice dog" from Ocala, Fl. I'm not sure if the dog mentioned was a a dutch shepherd, but I thought that it is extremely cruel to use dogs for this purpose and glad she did rescue him. I'm not sure if others are aware of what practice dogs are.... I had to find out online. I do hope dutchies are not used for this purpose anywhere.

[cordeliandemon]

by practice dog do you mean it was a bait dog for dog fights? i too hope no dutch shepherds are used for that and some day no dogs will be at all.
to the best of my knowledge they use smaller, weaker, docile pet dogs or puppies for that purpose because the whole point is for the fighting dog to win and gain confidence from killing the other dog, the other dog may even be muzzled or have its mouth taped closed.
dutch shepherds are pretty formidable in their own right, not to mention hard to come by and not usually sold cheaply so i doubt they would ever be used as bait dogs.

we always have warnings here to never ever give away a pet (cat/ dog/ puppies/ kittens) "free to good home" as thats the most common way criminals acquire the poor animals who end up in that situation.

[ralbucks]

Yes, it makes sense.
While searching, I saw this yesterday:
http://drive4shelter.rescueme.org/ - Nacho dutch shepherd mix with a sad story.

[centrop67]

[montecarlogirl87]

I often wonder about Shylah... the area of Orlando I found her in is, let's just say, not a nice area... it's frequently near the top, if not the top, in listings for most dangerous cities/neighborhoods in the country

she is/was a very strange dog to see in that area, I had been working there for almost 3 years (and I did parts delivery, so I was on those streets every day), shepherds of any kind where definitely not a common sight

and she was SO fearful and submissive when I got her, it was clear she had been abused, although, thankfully, she had no physical (visible) signs... I had to physically pick her up to put her in my car because the second you got anywhere near her she flopped onto her back, any sudden movement she cowered and ran, I had to teach her to play because if you tried to throw a ball or toy she ran the other way like you were gonna pelt her with it, she wouldn't even go within 20ft of the food bowl until everyone backed away from it

if she wasn't already a bait dog, I wouldn't be surprised if that had been the plan for her

(which also make me wonder where on earth she came from, such an uncommon dog and in such a strange area)

[centrop67]

Some of the key themes of the "Is My Canine a Dutch Shepherd" thread is that these dogs are rare in the U.S., they're expensive, they are almost never bred with none-shepherd breeds, and that having one show up in a shelter is extremely rare - like wining the lotto (I am not sure NADSR would fully agree.).

Anyway, my Radar did end up in the Miami-Dade Animal Shelter. He is dog and noise/wheels reactive. He had a severe grapefruit sized burn on his side, and of course like everyone else I would love to know how all this happened.

My fictionalized story of his history has him being a protection dog reject due to his reactivity, punished improperly for this, and being smart enough to escape his abusive trainers. Then again, his bite, fearlessness, intelligence, and athletic ability probably would work well as a protection dog.

In any scenario, I believe that abusing a dog is simply pure evil and the second lowest a human can be besides being a child sexual predator - but very close. In fact, if you are at that level, calling you a human would be an insult to the rest of us.

Sorry - time to step off my soapbox.

[ralbucks]

Like yours, my dog is a rescue, found out was DS (from this website) after adopting him as a plott hound mix in central/north FL. perfect puppy, seemed very small and bony ( his back legs were a little bit on the very thin side) when I first got him and I have always wondered how he got to be a stray at only 3 months of age. Did he escape something or was he just the "runt of the litter" and nobody wanted him ? Now he is 63 pounds at a year and 4 months, and about 22-23 inches at withers and still growing and becoming stronger. I guess he is is exactly in European standards size, but smaller than KPNV lines. I am imagining that with his floppy ear (initially) and goofy face he did not look like he would become tough enough. So is it possible, that maybe they are becoming less rare as they are bred more and more, but also, that they are at risks of being abused more if their size is not right on and used for other purposes if deemed not big enough? The thought is scary to me.

[Mark77]

This was one of the reasons I asked when I bred my dog if they would have some kind of first rights policy in contract so that the animals would be sent back to the breeder should the owner decide to give up the dog. Basically, if the new owner of a pup wants to surrender the animal or sell it for less- they'd have to return the animal back to the breeder or face a fine. I've read online about many breeders requiring first surrender rights from their purchasers to protect the animals from abusive situations.

[ralbucks]

Did not know that, it makes me feel so much better there is a such a thing as first surrender rights.

[TimL_168]

Did not know that, it makes me feel so much better there is a such a thing as first surrender rights.

It's a pretty common practice among serious breeders

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Surrendering back to breeder is a... I would like to say common occurrence but honestly, in my limited work, it doesn't happen that often. Usually the dog get sold or given to shelters because the person needs money/forgets the breeder will take back the dog. Some breeders say they will and they won't. I have seen breeders fight to get back a dog that was sold and was in trouble, I have seen breeders look the other way or refuse a dog they said they would take back, I have seen a breeder take back a dog and promise to keep him and train him for themselves and turn around and sell it behind the former owner's back, and I have seen a breeder discover a once sold puppy in a shelter situation. A breeder can only act if they are aware of the problem - it is easy to say "the breeder should take them back" but if the person with a dog never tells the breeder, then the breeder is in the dark. A reputable breeder will take the dog back no problem and that is why I always recommend a specific list of breeders.

The same problem goes to first-surrender rights. Puppy contracts are hard to enforce, especially when talking about different states, and it takes time to pursue broken contracts. If the owner never tells the breeder, then it's hard to enforce. Even if they do and the breeder refuses though in a contract they should accept, it is hard to enforce and takes time and money and courts and lawyers. This becomes problematic when time is of the essence. Puppy contracts are notoriously hard to enforce - possible, but time consuming - and are there to lay out guidelines for things that may happen. While I still personally prefer puppy contracts for any breeder I may buy from, I also recognize that it is up to the breeder and buyer to enforce their own contracts, and that is why buying from a reputable breeder (AKA someone who cares about what they're doing) is essential.

The truth is that DS mixes or dogs that look like a DS mix are fairly common in rescue situations. Phenotypes can imitate a lot of breeds without ever being that breed. Most are labeled DS mix if they're brindle and have pointy ears, or are somewhat a shepherd shape. Most are hard to ID until the dog gets older, pictures aren't accurate, or there's a lot of misinformation out there. About half (and I'm not talking specifically this site) "DS" I see are not DS nor DS mixes - they are mutts. A lot of time is spent IDing and checking breed standard for breed specific rescues to get involved. Those that do not match the characteristics or do not have enough qualifying characteristics are left because they are too hard to accurately ID as the breed. Resources are scarce for DS rescues so most focus on those that are fairly pure based off of temperament and phenotype. Those that accept mixes do so after possibly IDing as a mix of the breed as accurately as they can, or take them in simply because they can and ID them based on vague features and personal preference. I once worked with a lady in a rescue who labeled almost every dog with features she could not match as a lab mix. It's all preference and dependent on how the rescue operates. This leads to a lot of confusion about if the dog is or is not a DS.

There are hotspots of pure DS across the US, usually where there is a high rate of BYBers and dog fighting rings (the brindle gets thought of as pit), and of course some lower socio-economic areas (we see this among GSD, Rotts, and Pits - bigger more scary looking the dog, the more they are wanted to "protection" aspects). Florida is a huge hot spot, with some areas in CA and along the Mississippi river also being common. All of these hot spots have widely different reasons for being a hot spot, sometimes even for things I have not listed. With all of the dogs in rescue and shelters across the US, the DS is starting to become more popular, but is still not as frequent as a pit or GSD.

[ralbucks]

yes, I thought the problem is not a simple one and there are facets to it, thanks Owned-By-Hendrix.
I saw this today: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... t-dog.html

[centrop67]

The heartbreaking moment an abandoned German Shepherd at a shelter sees her owners and wags her tail in excitement... only for them to ask for a DIFFERENT dog

[racingiron1]

Wow. Just wow. Dog became sad when it's father died, so let's abandon it (making her MORE sad) so we can have a happy dog. People can be so selfish!

[TimL_168]

The heartbreaking moment an abandoned German Shepherd at a shelter sees her owners and wags her tail in excitement... only for them to ask for a DIFFERENT dog

I...I could not have worked at that shelter and left with my job. My sarcastic nature would have led me to put a pair of glasses on their shepherd and waltzed it right back out to them. If they complained, I'd probably just chase them away with a table leg. Ef'em.

[TimL_168]

Surrendering back to breeder is a... I would like to say common occurrence but honestly, in my limited work, it doesn't happen that often.

I should have been more specific. I guess I meant to say that it's commonly a part of a purchase contact. You're completely right. Aurora's purchase contact was pretty detailed. I'm actually supposed to have her autopsied if she dies from unknown causes.

[centrop67]

Happy Ending for ZuZu - DailyNews.Com

All the social media attention for Zuzu paid off because on Tuesday, the Downey Animal Care Center announced on Facebook Pet Adoption Fund, a Canoga Park-based rescue organization, will pick her up Friday.

As for Zuzu’s past owners, Downey Animal Care Center reported that they did not adopt another dog.

Next step (Let's hope): Forever Home