What's Up With This?

[leih merigian]

OK, one of the things Geyser and I are working on is a hand touch. The criterion is that she's supposed to touch her nose to whichever hand is offered, palm towards her.

In the initial training stages, it went very well. We'd only do a few in a row, then on to something else.

I am very careful about saying when a dog knows something. For example, for a dog to truly understand the concept of sit, that means it will sit in any environment/situation, on cue, even if your back is turned or you're sitting in a chair, etc. I believe it takes a long time/many repetitions for a dog to really know any single concept.

Back to the hand touch and my little darling .

When I'm feeding her, I feed her in portions, doling her food out and asking for sit until released. This is going great. She seems to understand her release word and she holds her sit until I release her (I don't ask her to hold it terribly long... a few seconds is all). I get incredible focus for this exercise ...obviously, she loves her food.

Now, when I present my hand for a hand touch during the day, during training, or otherwise, she's tending to open her mouth to bite my palm. Obviously, she gets no mark/reward for this behavior.

I decided to present my hand during these feeding sessions...and the little shit touches either hand with a very gentle and correct nose touch .

Last nite, before I gave her an ice cube late in the evening, I presented my hand...she just bit it. Gave her three chances, three bites, no ice cube. (She really likes ice cubes.)

So, what's up with this? She seems to have the beginnings of the hand touch concept, since she will do it properly during feeding sessions. But, she just wants to bite my hand at other times.

The only thing I can think of is that the reward isn't high value enough during the other times.

What do you guys think?

[Christie M]

I think that she is just looking for variations of the game that she finds more rewarding. So yes - the ice cube probably isn't reason enough to touch nice because biting is more rewarding than ice.

I know you aren't raising her to be a protection dog, but she is a working puppy with a strong desire to vent frustration through her mouth. That is genetic. I think some of them bite straight out of the womb. How about introducing formal tug games - complete with out, rebite, tug...etc. Give a formal vent for that desire. If she learns the rules and context of that game, then she will likely stop trying to introduce the behavior in other areas.

I agree with how you handled it, although I don't know if I would have given 3 chances. Puppy bites out of context - game over. But again, I think its important to give her the chance to vent that natural behavior.

[leih merigian]

I think that she is just looking for variations of the game that she finds more rewarding. So yes - the ice cube probably isn't reason enough to touch nice because biting is more rewarding than ice.

I know you aren't raising her to be a protection dog, but she is a working puppy with a strong desire to vent frustration through her mouth. That is genetic. I think some of them bite straight out of the womb. How about introducing formal tug games - complete with out, rebite, tug...etc. Give a formal vent for that desire. If she learns the rules and context of that game, then she will likely stop trying to introduce the behavior in other areas.

I agree with how you handled it, although I don't know if I would have given 3 chances. Puppy bites out of context - game over. But again, I think its important to give her the chance to vent that natural behavior.

She won't get three chances next time. I just wanted to see what would happen, but I agree with you, the biting is more rewarding than the ice. The dinner, however, seems to be more rewarding than the biting, when she's hungry.

We've been playing tug from day one, and she has a great out already. I give her tons of opportunity to vent her energy and drive in this manner, and use it as a reward, too, in the right situations. She still loves to bite. I always have something in my pocket to give to her to chew on instead of my hands. Perhaps she'd be a ton worse if she weren't playing tug .

Let me ask you about nail trimming. I want to be able to do it without forcing the issue, and ultimately, would like to be able to use a dremmel. What I am doing right now is a game called It's Your Choice...I sit in the (cleared out) bathroom with her with a handful of treats on the closed toilet seat. If she behaves in a calm manner, she gets treats. If she tries to get them herself from the lid, I just cover them with my hand.

She's good about calming down for this, but then I start to handle her feet (I handle them regularly throughout the day), and individuate the toes, in anticipation of clipping them, and eventually, sanding them. This doesn't go as well. We have our moments when she tolerates it well, but they're brief moments.

I must admit I'm getting kind of frustrated about this, as I really want to shorten her nails. They're sharp and getting longer.

Do you have any advice? How do you deal with this with your pups?

[leih merigian]

Well, the penny dropped last nite as I was thinking about this nail issue, and how valuable her food is to her.

I decided to do the It's Your Choice thing using her meals, as the reward for behaving while I mess with her feet and ultimately, trim the nails. I mean, I'm using the meals for training of some kind anyway, so why not for this important purpose?

So, I fed her by spoon (she's already learned to lick a spoon). She was very good about my holding each foot in turn and handling each toe, too. Not one bite! I noticed that as we got to about 3/4 done with her meal, her behavior deteriorated some as her tummy was filling up, so the actual nail work will need to be done early in the feeding process.

Next meal, I'll be touching each nail with the clippers right off. Perhaps tomorrow, I'll be able to clip a couple.

I have a friend who swears by this process. She has 9 dogs, and they get to have their nails done one at a time, in the bathroom, using this process. They beg at the door for their turns.

Next, we'll be using this for ear cleaning and other body-handling things.

I'm so glad she loves her food so much!