DS and kids

[Violet]

This is the first time I've posted since my intro, I've been enjoying the forum and my partner and I have continued our research into the DS as a potential dog for us.

I'm just trying to clear something up because I keep hearing contradtions in terms of how the DS is with kids. My partner and I have heard they are very good to excellent with kids from breeders, but we are also hearing from people who have been around DS that they are very prey driven and highly reactive and not best around kids.Most of these people are involved in dog sports such as SCH/VPG and police dog training. My partner and I are pretty sure the DS these people have experienced are most likely the ones bred for these qualities for sports etc but I myself would like to clear this up because I have three kids. We are pretty experienced with strong willed and highly driven dogs, but of course don't want a breed thats so highly reactive it can't be trusted around kids.

Bearing that in mind I have a JRT which are also supposed to be not best suited around kids due to a high chance of being snappy and he's fantastic, even better than the GSD (she just wants to be with me )

Basically i'd like to be able to prove these people have not met a REAL DS yet. Any comments would be much appreciated thankyou

[Marjolein]

I think you must keep in mind that there is two versions of a DS, there is the pedigree one bred in europe, and there is the KNPV-line dog. These are both referred to as "Dutch Shepherd" and I have learned to accept that, whaha.
My point is, some KNPV line dogs were never meanth to go into a home, they were bred solely for the purpose of police/military working dog. Some lines try and breed them as dominant as possible so they can handle being beaten by a spaced out junkie trying to kick the dog off them. You can understand that this dog is, and should be, a different type of dog than the one we want to do recreational sports with, and also keep in a family home. Most exported dogs are KNPV line dogs, because they are interesting for military purposes etc.

Without labelling all the pedigree dogs sissy's (I would never!! ) they are a totally different league. So yes, those people are both right. Just depends on what line you buy a dog from. Best thing to do is get to know the dogs the breeder uses. Meet them!

[Violet]

Thats pretty much what I've noticed Marjolein. I don't know how many purebred or pedigree DS are in America and the UK but I am aware of quite a few being crossed with other breeds a few generations back. Even read something about the input of GSD and Malinois causing a slightly more reactive and unstable temperament which seems to be done quite frequently by serious 'working/sport' people.

To me the original pedigree dogs are what a true DS should be. Really versatile and pretty balanced with a challenging inventiveness to keep you on your toes. Would be nice to introduce those who have only met the 'hard' DS dogs to a nice all-round one and dispel the myth of DS being unsuitable for families. Interestingly enough when someone was quoting kennel names of DS breeders who have claimed they aren't suitable in familes, one of the breeders mentioned quite obviously states on their website ( in dutch) that a couple of their dogs are with their family with young kids and are fantastic, kind of defeating the arguement themselves, but I guess if thats all they have experienced then they won't know any different.

TBH the more we hear from NL breeders the more keen we get. It's just a case of meeting some up close and personal which we are hoping to do sometime next year. It's easier for my partner obviously, luckily enough I trust his judgement and the breeders we've been in touch with.I find it hard to believe breeders would say their dogs are great with kids if the opposite is true because it could lead to all sorts of bother down the line, and i'm pretty sure all breeders want to do is promote the breed in a good light

[Marjolein]

To me the original pedigree dogs are what a true DS should be.

mmhh, be carefull what you say, haha Different opinions on this around here...

In my opinion the only "wrong" DS is one with a false incorrect pedigree. The ones that have used KNPV dogs the legal way, I can only appreciate. You will find that lots of KNPV lineage dogs are very friendly too! It's just certain lines you do not want to start with as an unexperienced handler.
That's why I said "meet them". You cannot judge dogs by foto's or written descriptions. You must feel a "click" with both the breeders and his/her dogs.
And trust me, not all pedigree dogs are good...or friendly in a famliy.

[CaroleBoaz]

Marjolein has good advice.

There is a small group of people who have and breed the pedigreed variety. Also referred to as FCI dogs. I have one, though, I doubt I would be breeding it. There is little market for an FCI dog in the US, and a nice one can be had from The Netherlands for a reasonable price from the best dogs. But I know people who occasionally breed the long coat and rough coat in the US. And some of them do dog sports with them. I don't know of anybody breeding short coats with FCI pedigrees. Doesn't mean they aren't out there. They just aren't that visible.

And I can vouch for these dogs being great with kids. I was walking my guy through Petsmart one day and a little boy ran up and started petting Boaz. He was all wags and just loved the attention. The little girls down the street love to pet him, too. Plus, my breeder taught all the puppies not to bite before going to their new homes. I know! The horror! A DS that doesn't bite! LOL!

[Violet]

I suppose I should say the 'one being bred to the breed standard are the true DS?' lol I should be careful yeah, don't want to upset anyone with strong working/sport dogs. I can appreciate them as much as the next person and one day I would like one myself, but as a family dog most just don't seem to be as suitable from those lines. I guess it's what pops up in each individual litter. You can get really highly driven dogs in a pet/show/versatile litter or really laid back calm ones in a sport/working litter. All depends on how the genes have been passed on, which is why knowing what the dogs are like is the first step in breeding so you can match them up to the ideal mate.

I'm pretty sure there are sport people out there who think the more calm/social dogs are rubbish as much as there are others who really dislike the sports dogs. It's all about perception really, but for us it HAS to be good family dog which is why we are researching the lines as much as we can and are even recognising some consistent traits and lines that seem more suited to us. Its good to get many opinions on the subject I've found and obviously speaking to those who have experienced highly reactive DS is also good as we know the things to watch out for.

It seems with DS it's harder to work out some of the dogs because unlike GSD there aren't always such an obvious line between the show and working lines.. they all seem to be very similar character wise but some with more particular areas of expertise, such as some breed for IPO others SandR, others herding, they all having very particular traits needed. For me it has to be a versatile dog and it seems the DS fits into this category pretty well unless it has been bred to fit a specific purpose.

@ Blackpuppy LOL! thats nice to hear

[Dutchringgirl]

I would have to agree with Marjolein. Thalie is 9 and has always been fantastic with my kids when they were infants and now, but Thalie is a low drive , except when she sees the bike come out, she knows we are going riding. She came from France but wasnt trained for police work, as my Mal. Thalie is super tolerant and sweet and kids can run up to her and she will just wag her tail. I now to Therapy dog work with her. Saide is a rescue, and I am careful with her on first meetings, she is a happy girl but more protective and driven than Thalie. When I was looking for a dog, my trainer knew my home situation and I had been working with him and my Mal for a few years at that point, so he knew Thalie would fit right in.

[Jan]

All I can say I that our rough coats are very good with people and even better with children, they just adore them. But we never leave the dogs alone together with kids because there is always a possibilty that kids do ''something'' that harm dogs on which they could response aggresively.

[kchristy]

I'm new here too violet, but I just thought I would express my experiences thus far. We recently got a DS puppy for my son, he had been watching a GSD, but when I saw a DS I fell in love. The puppy is 2 months old now and loves my son and our miniture chihuahua. What I have learned from the forum so far, is that the temperament depends alot on the bloodline, we were told some stories about his bloodline, but never saw any paperwork proving it. Due to him being in a chewing puppy stage, he does get a little rough when playing sometimes. He doesn't become aggressive and growl when playing with my son, he just nips and is a bit "mouthy". All puppies love to chew on things though, so we are working on training him, that its not okay to chew on peoples arms lol. We have been giving him alot of other things to chew and he is getting better. He has bonded to my son very much. I have already seen the puppy(Soba) place himself in front of other dogs (strays)and stand his ground, to keep the dogs from getting near my son. Also Soba has been really easy to train and already knows several basic commands. In all, he is a great companion for our family. We all love him very much and I believe I have found my new favorite breed

[Violet]

I really appreciate everybodys input. Jannumbernext, just to let you know we would never leave kids alone with dogs, as much as I trust my dogs, can't say I fully trust my youngest two children just yet. My eldest however is really looking forward to having a young dog to work with. She's just started getting involved with the 7 yr old JRT doing some agility and tracking and she seems really keen. He can be a bit too stubborn for her at times though, mostly I think because he didn't have as much training as a youngster.