Dutch Shepherd Forum

The Dutch Shepherd is almost unchanged in 100 years, I don't think that the AKC is capable of "ruining" the breed. Do you think the German Showline German Shepherds look the same as they did 100 year ago? I will tell you, they do not. And it is because it was the breed club that decides what the breed standard is, and what the dog looks like. The NHC even made up a book (the red book) for judges in other countries so they understand exactly what a DS looks like, and compares to the German Shepherd, and Belgian Shepherds.

And why is it only the AKC that is hated, and not the UKC, also. The UKC allows registration of DS who have Malinois parentage. Is that better?

I would not buy a dog from anybody who does not check the hips and elbows. I even check my own dogs, and I do not breed them. I also have their eyes checked (CERF). It is not costly, and not difficult. Plus, it is in the best interest of the dog.

But it is not a guarantee. My Laekenois' parents had hips and elbows checked, but he has hip dysplasia. Not bad, but it is there.

CaroleBoaz wrote: And why is it only the AKC that is hated, and not the UKC, also. The UKC allows registration of DS who have Malinois parentage. Is that better?

DS recorded in the pedigree MUST have origins malinois ???
les DS enregistré en pure race DOIVENT avoir des origines malinois ?

I have asked the UKC why it is allowed. They said they will answer me later.
J'ai demandé à l'UKC pourquoi il est autorisé. Ils ont dit qu'ils vont me répondre plus tard.

Welcome

chimere wrote:DS recorded in the pedigree MUST have origins malinois ???

No, obviously not a must. And I am pretty sure that you cannot register a DS litter if one parent is a malinois. so I don't know who says you can, since that is not what I know to be true.

CaroleBoaz wrote:The Dutch Shepherd is almost unchanged in 100 years, I don't think that the AKC is capable of "ruining" the breed. Do you think the German Showline German Shepherds look the same as they did 100 year ago? I will tell you, they do not. And it is because it was the breed club that decides what the breed standard is, and what the dog looks like. The NHC even made up a book (the red book) for judges in other countries so they understand exactly what a DS looks like, and compares to the German Shepherd, and Belgian Shepherds.

Looks don't have everything to do with it. The number of new fanciers, who breed for looks, nothing else, that's what will ruin a breed faster than you can imagine. The fact that the GSD is largely ruined is not the fault of those who bred the dog for their work and temperament, but the fault of those who sought the conformation podium, with total disregard for function. The changed conformation is a direct result of the changed subjective interpretation of what was wanted. "angulation" on the hind quarters is the very best example of how thing have gone wrong and overboard.

And why is it only the AKC that is hated, and not the UKC, also. The UKC allows registration of DS who have Malinois parentage. Is that better?

To me, UKC as an original working entity is better, yes. The top podium in UKC is not as prestigious as AKC. Less chance that dogs that are for decoration only will pollute a working population.

I would not buy a dog from anybody who does not check the hips and elbows. I even check my own dogs, and I do not breed them. I also have their eyes checked (CERF). It is not costly, and not difficult. Plus, it is in the best interest of the dog.

I have done cerf, yes, and if you have done that, you know that it should be repeated yearly. Not affected at the moment that is it done, does not mean that the dog will not be affected a year (or more) down the road. What do you do? Recall the pups if the dog shows it at a later age? Sure, it is better than knowingly using a dog with problems, but sure is not fool proof. Since eye problems are prevalent in the Rough coats, but not ni the Long or short hairs, I feel that cerf for short hairs is between the breeder and the buyer.

Bienvenue!

I am breeding in Germany, and here we MUST test for colour (kbr) I find this useless, since a yellow puppy is as healthy as a brindled one... But we HAVE to.
The only good thing is, you still get to use a kbr/ky (carrying yellow) dog, even in combination with another kbr/ky, although you will be advised not to by the HSCD (german club). Just hopes it stays that way...I would use a good charachter kbr/ky any day

Also we MUST test hips and elbows, which is good. I like to check the back to, this is just done by my vet, so not evaluated.

I have also attended shows, and I must say that untill now I have not seen the excesses in Dutch Shepherds as seen in many other breeds. I feel in Holland it is more a way to promote/show the breed to the public. Many times at clubshows there will be demonstrations of the work they can do. And you'd have to have e really weird dog not to get a "good" report.

it is rare to see dogs without origin registered purebred
but it happens in France for the quality or KNPV dogs

Carole / vneerland have opposing views
I'm sure the average can
find beautiful dog on the field work and good dogs for the exhibition (show)

Here the dog tests work (bite)
with a face, gun, stick dam
it's very simple but we also see the fighting spirit of this exercise

2011 the largest gathering of the race (clubshow) was won by a working dog (tracking)

I have set in Germany (Ludwigshafen 2010 / Saarbrücken 2011 / Stuttgart 2011)
beautiful dogs very often, but also "unconventional" and I wonder how people think these dogs amount (?)

I also like a failure:
short nose!
but I will not choose to have because it is inconsistent with n
I do not look, if I like the dog ok, too bad for the nose is not long enough

for the color I am of the same opinion Marjolein
I think it's primarily a protection for the future
because if people are not careful, can be long-term we will lose the stripes (?)

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il est rare de voir des chiens sans origines inscrit en pure race
mais ca arrive en france pour les chiens de qualité ou KNPV

Carole / vneerland ont des avis opposés
je suis sur que la moyenne est possible
trouver de beaux chien sur les terrains de travail et de bon chiens pendant les exhibitions (show)

ici le chien a des tests travail (mordant)
avec une face , pistolet , barrage bâton
c'est très simple mais on voit aussi la combativité sur cette exercice

2011 le grand rassemblement de la race à était gagné par un chien de travail (pistage)

j'ai exposé en Allemagne
de beaux chiens très souvent mais aussi des "hors normes" et je me demandes comment les gens pense en montant ces chiens (?)

moi aussi j'aime un défaut :
le nez court !
mais je ne vais pas sélectionner pour en avoir car ce n est pas conforme
je ne regardes pas , si le chien me plait ok , tant pis pour le nez qui n'est pas assez long

pour la couleur je suis du même avis Marjolein
je penses que c'est surtout une protection pour l avenir
car si personne ne fait attention , peut être à long terme nous perdrons les rayures (?)

chimere wrote:Carole / vneerland have opposing views
I'm sure the average can
find beautiful dog on the field work and good dogs for the exhibition (show)

Here the dog tests work (bite)
with a face, gun, stick dam
it's very simple but we also see the fighting spirit of this exercise

2011 the largest gathering of the race (clubshow) was won by a working dog (tracking)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I certainly like a good looking dog. But it is ugly to me, regardless what the show results would say, if the dog cannot work. By that, I try to maintain a high working standard. Not just a dog that will do obedience, agility or doggy dance, but I aim for the jobs that help mankind. K9's, certified SAR dogs, that sort of thing. It goes far beyond the work aptitude tests that some countries offer, though I will admit that France is ahead of Holland with the TAN and TAT, and wished Holland would select for working aptitude as well. To some, just about the only thing that matters, is the alleged pure bred status of their dogs and if they fit the ideal that is described in the breed standard. To each their own, but to me, a DS that is for decoration only, is not a real DS. The focus on the show ring has ruined many a working breed, or caused a split between work and show stock. In my ideal world, a DS should work fantastic, be healthy and look acceptable. Certainly not the other way around.

@Eva - that video shows exactly what can happen when function no longer takes priority. And believe it or not, those folks think this is functional. J. Moses has made a fortune handling these GSDs.
You should see how these poor GSDs with egg-beater rears try to herd, what they were originally bred for. It is so so sad.
Even if they have the heart (most of that has been bred out as well), their bodies are as if they are two, the rear can not keep up with the front and the poor dogs become a tangled mess, basically bunny-hopping around trying to keep up with the stock. When I see this at trials, I just have to turn my head and walk away. My daughter had a show line Am-Bred GSD that would have gone champion conformation but he was cryptorchid so that is how she got him. Out of all the GSDs we had through my home, he was the ONLY one who I could not housetrain, was dumb as a stump, couldnt even make CGC. Heart was totally bred out of this poor boy but oh his whole pedigree came from champion lines. Downright sickening.......

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too hot, with water games

What Fun !!

I love the little non dutch in the photos - cute!!