Dutch Shepherd Forum

Chicken/Turkey doesn't work with Sugar because she gets itchy.

I had her on the Natural Balance Fish formula for a while and that worked well. Nice small solid poops. I have since changed to Orijen fish formula and it took a couple of months for her stool to firm up, but I found that to be the best food for her so far.

Rob, on the activity levels...

Dogs need to be conditioned as much as we do for whatever activity it is they're doing. My DS engages in fetching for 30 min to an hour 5 days out of the week. She gets lots of rest (as needed, as she has an exercise intolerance problem), where my GSD would go for an hour solid, no breaks. But, you have to work up to that degree of activity.

I think it's much more dangerous to have a dog that's not well-conditioned engage in occasional explosive exercise, if you're concerned about potential injuries. It's similar to human weekend warriors .

Of course, then you have your overuse injuries to consider, too, but if you're doing 10 minutes of hard fetch a day, that's not too much for your dog.

DS don't have as much HD as GSDs do, tho it does occur. As far as arthritis goes, I'd rather have a dog that had totally enjoyed its life develop arthritis in older age, than a dog that is arthritis free, but wasn't able to engage in reasonable activities for the fear of doing so. Activity level doesn't have much to do with HD.

Hi Leih,
I figured she's just "out of shape", and have been trying to build her up, but her stamina is not yet anywhere close to our Lab yet, but didn't know if it was her breed's lung-heart capacity, or she's just not "there" yet. Your GSD sounds like a great athlete . I had heard HD is much less prevalent in DS, but will still be careful. She is also not truly coordinated yet (or she's just a spazz). I have had a few times where she jumped for the ball but so ungracefully, she almost got hurt as she landed. I'm sure that will improve with practice.

I'll continue to increase her ball play. We were just sad to see how much arthritis our Lab got (not to mention how much ACL surgery cost, only to tear the other side), though it may have also been one of those genetic predispositions. I agree, better to have a fun life though .

We have a good group at the dog park that's part of the park I play ball with her, and she gets a decent amount of chase in. Yesterday, she played with a 15week old White Shepherd puppy, though that wasn't too taxing on her. She was soooo good with the little pup, who had never played with a dog Izzy's size before. She really gets along so well with other dogs, whereas our, we were never quite sure.

Try to be careful about how you throw things for her. I don't like my dog to be jumping too high to get something, because they can land wrong and (you guessed it) blow their ACLs out. So, either throw way farther than she can get before it lands, so she's not trying to jump up too high to get to it, or toss is lower to the ground.

Personally, I'm not a big tennis ball fan. For one thing, the surface gets all gritty and becomes like an emory board on the teeth (there's another post on here about a dog having worn it's canines down from balls...different surfaces with texture can do that). There are so many cool kinds of balls out there that there's really no need to rely on tennis balls these days. I love the orbee balls. I have a smallish one on a little rope, so the looped rope makes it very easy to throw (just put your index finger in the loop and suddenly I can throw like an olympian ), and the ball itself is very dog teeth friendly. Just an example...

My DS has an exercise intollerance issue, which she's had since she was a baby. She tires out very quickly, overheats, has to rest before she can go again (and I make her rest even when she doesn't think she needs it, since dogs are pretty stupid about this kind of thing).

Describe how your pup is when she's tired...do you let her rest a bit and see if she wants to go again, or just figure she's done? How far is she running to fetch the ball? Etc.

I don't bounce it where I think she'll get crossed up and get hurt. As far as throwing, I use one of those Chuck-It throwers (to save my shoulder), probably 40 yrds. on average per throw. The thing that's nice about the loose ball is the extra distance with the roll. I know she's getting tired wehn she gradually runs slower, and drops the ball farther from me. That's about the time I stop, usually about 10 minutes. I used to wait until my Lab would lie down on her own, but I haven't tried to push this one that far.

Speaking of wearing her teeth, she is a total OCD chewer. We have to give her the white NylaBones for heavy chewers or she eats them. Makes my head hurt watching her grind those things! We are hoping she'll back off as she matures

Leih, I could not agree more about throwing caution, about general conditioning, about WARMING UP [ just like any athlete or dancer does] and about tennis balls.

AAA] I would add about throwing to avoid any toss of a toy or treat that might require even a modest stretching for it when the dog is on a slippery surface, which is on almost all non-carpet or non-cork indoor surfaces whether at home or in stores. icy conditions also a problem. all this presents good chance of joint or tendon strains or muscle spasm. the DS will make max effort no matter what, so we have to make sure throwing dynamics and surface conditions are safe

BBB] in addition to what you said about tennis balls, the really serious constant issue is the nylon, which is sharp and literally slices through their enamel like a knife of ceramic threads. its effects are cumulative and eventually will remove much of the tooth enamel from a dog's mouth. worse - and unbelievable !! - is that lines of dog chew, chase and tug toys are made from this stuff.

CCC] about arthritis, I agree with leih, that one cannot deprive a dog of exercise that is physically and mentally healthy and will probably extend a dog's vigorous life span significantly. what you CAN and SHLOULD DO is take the precautionary measures suggested by Leih and feed a great diet with supplements to keep the joints healthy. a great diet effects EVERYTHING positively, but joint supplements make a really noticeable difference. walmart [ usually been a costly choice but worth the premium] now carries cosequin [ glucosamine and chondroitin formulated for high bio-availability in dogs - no other formulation seems to work as well] which should definitely be given as a ds ages but using it early is all the better for avoiding problems. the other supplement I urge for a dog's lifetime is ''platinum performance CJ'', the cj denoting complete joint. plat perf is a general purpose daily supplement [ recommended by vet school journals for horses and dogs] to insure vitamin, mineral and enzyme needs are being minimally met. and cj is one of their 3 variants that has an added boost for joint health. an older dog would definitely need the cosequin in addition to this.

DDD] feeding - I think some non-kibble on a daily basis is healthy. for canned food, I prefer merrick, and specifically smothered comfort [ includes a whole chicken breast with bone] and, of more interest to you, a- wild buffalo and b- working dog stew. this latter menu should be a bi-daily or weekly staple for most dogs in that it is a great mix of fruit and veggies [ as with all merrick cans] in a base of organ meats. most dogs do not get the whole animal as they would in the wild and instead get a diet too geared to muscle meat with a distinct lack of components only found in the heart, the liver, and various obscure organs.
aside from a variety of high quality[ i.e., from local farmers and fisherman] cooked oily fish, eggs, fowl, grass-fed beef or buffalo, other easier things I feed on a regular basis: water-canned sardines, ground flax seed, olive or flax seed oil, peanut butter, bananas, apples, melon, fat-free cottage cheese and yogurt, carrots, fresh green herbs [ rosemary, thyme, oregano] and bland leafy stuff like spinach, kale, etc.
btw, bison/buffalo is always the best red meat [ and probably best processed meat in general] as it is always grass-fed; always suspicious of fish, because so much is farmed and like tilapia is poisonous [ farmed salmon or regular chicken or regular meat have none of the nutrients - as opposed to calories - that caused the original foods to be desirable in the first place]. so sardines are an excellent and cheap source of essential fatty acids in their original tasty form.

EEE] diarrhea -- here I am likely to stir the ire of a lot of people here whose opinions I value. [ AND PARDON ME BECAUSE tho this is meant to inform you, ITS POINTEDNESS IS MEANT TO ADDRESS THIS GENERAL ISSUE AS IT HAS ARISEN IN MANY DIFFERENT FORMS THOUGHOUT THIS FORUM.] Izzie's on-again-off-again intestinal problems may well be allergies; it is the first thing suggested both by people here and by most vets. I see no basis for jumping to such a conclusion to the usual exclusion of more likely causes. every dog that has EVER come into my care has had intestinal problems that every vet and every advisor has said is either allergies or nerves. in every case, despite having been just ''vetted'', it turned out to be internal infection and was cured no thanks to the vet other than complying with my absolute demands to analyze stool samples I have provided and for providing meds in consultation with me. the stool samples have not always tested positive for something, but based on my observation [ which varies case to case] i have always insisted on treating with meds anyway. in each and every case, the problem was cured and invariably, the dog became a much happier and more vigorous dog - often with marked improvements in temperament. after all, the conditions that lead to diarrhea make anyone grouchy. imagine chronic diarrhea; we would never tolerate it [ allergies?!; come on !], but so many dog owners allow it for their dogs, even the exemplary dog PARTNERS on this site. it is a tremendous physical, mental, and emotional strain on a dog as it would be on us. in many locations throughout the country, intestinal infections are endemic among dogs and getting more so as tropical bugs move into no. America. 20% of all dogs in nyc are infected by giardia, which is also a severe problem in the south. would be surprised if there was not a similar problem in CA communities. there are many other potential pathogens, many of which may not even be tested for. ones that are tested for - including worms - can escape detection in any single stool sample or ''test'' of that sample no matter how severe the infection may be [ how heavy a load it is].
now, here is the politically tricky part: salmonella is one of those pathogens. like any of the others, it may or may not lead directly to death. also, like the others, it most probably won't cause death, but will assuredly if it persists or is recurrent lead to a lower quality of life and an earlier death than would otherwise be. there seems to be some misconception that salmonella is universally powerful bug in humans and is benign in dogs. but most people may never know they had a potentially dangerous infection. others are bed-ridden; usually only when someone nears critical stage or dies does it get identified as salmonella and authorities look for a salmonella ''outbreak.'' while it MAY be that dogs are a little less effected, the range of effect is the same as in humans. dogs die, others simply experience persistent diarrhea, lethargy and a variety of symptoms. even a recent blurb on this subject was posted on NADSR's facebook site relating to a government recall of a lot of dog foods for salmonella [ what to look for in your dog].
remember, when people get sick, they go to bed, go to the doctor or in some way, ACT sick. dogs, by instinct, will not do this. so they, especially DS, soldier on giving the impression that giardia and salmonella are no big deal. but they are just as big a deal as in humans.

diet is utmost. but if on-again-off-again diarrhea persists, investigate the possibility of infection. these infections usually cause symptoms like diarrhea to wax and wane as the infection bloom does the same, so do not mistake a brief respite from or lessening of diarrhea as indicative of anything particularly positive.

whether infected or not, daily administration of direct probiotics plus regular feeding of a little apple cider vinegar and cottage cheese and yogurt helps to keep the intestines full of good parasites so that the bad stuff has less of a chance of gaining a foothold. and, of course, monthly heartworm-plus meds are necessary, but do not prevent the likes of giardia or salmonella

Wow, that's a lot of info. Throwing is only after she's walked a few blocks to warm up. I don't let her chew on the tennis ball any more than I have to, but will look into alternatives.

The large, white, plastic bone she chews I assume is nylon, but she literally destroys and consumes every thing we give her to keep her busy. If we don't, she finds something of ours . We used to give her bully sticks when we first got her, but blamed some of the diarrhea on it since she'd eat the whole thing. I think if she were a person, she'd be a smoker;-)...it's like she needs that chewing to calm herself. She's not a nervous dog, just intense.

I'm really hoping the Natural Balance food (with the bison) is the reason she's been so regular. My wife does supplement in a little sweet potato mixed with rice, or Yummy Tummy Pumpkin. We were under the impression that changing her food by much was an invitation to the intestinal issues. When she has gotten diarrhea for more than a couple days, we give her flagyl which will cure it. We've also given her the pro biotic powder our vet gave us to reestablish her natural bacteria, though we don't give it to her on a regular basis. I can almost tell when she's about to get the squirts by her eyes...she gets "edgy" looking and is more irritable, so I know she must be feeling uncomfortable. She was also having trouble gaining weight and I worried about her not getting enough nutrition for her young dog development phase, since so much of the time all we were giving her was rice, cottage cheese and boiled chicken, with a little of the canned pumpkin mixed in. I toss her an occasional carrot now, but we haven't introduced many veggies...my wife is worried we'll set her off again . It's kind of sick, but now that her poops are solid, we beam to each other after her walks and describe how wonderful "they" now look .

Another thing she likes to do is eat crap off the ground. We have to watch her carefully since she'll eat almost anything....paper, leaves, people food of course, poop, we just never know. She's also a professional Counter Surfer. Any food left within reach (or what you may THINK is out of reach) she considers fair game. My wife turned her head one evening, and Izzy grabbed a slice of pizza off her plate and had it half swallowed by the time I caught her in the kitchen. Another night she ate 6 mini doughnuts out of the pan on top of the stove. Sneaky little devil! Our lab was soooooomuch easier in this regard. She never touched food that we didn't hand her, or eat any garbage off the ground. She was also two when we got her, and had probably outgrown that behavior...please let Izzy outgrow it!

the more intense grabbers of anything edible probably do not really outgrow the habit, but try training her to not pick up anything off the ground or any floor surface when you are out. not putting any treats or food on the floor at home also helps - all edibles on plate or by hand. do no put treats on the ground. if a treat or crumbs fall to the ground, tell her leave it. if worthwhile, pick it up and give. do not let strangers throw treats on the ground or if they do, do the 'leave it'. TEACH her an eating word - like ''eat''. I teach ''eat,'' ''drink'', ''chew'' and ''lick'' and constantly repeat these during positives - like encouraging ''drink good water'' and discourage same from muddy puddles'' NO DRINKing'' 'bad water, no drinking', etc, etc I even encourage chewing of food when a dog eats too fast. [ and it works eventually]
[[[[ going off on a tangent here: I know I'm odd on this score, but I find teaching language as fully as possible allows a very deep connection to form with the dog. aside from facilitating training objectives as stated above, the dogs responds to this added way of communicating more complex things and wants to communicate back to you. for example, if you start to put words to what the dog is doing and even thinking [ simplistically ''you want that squirrel?''], then the dog realizes there is no end to the possibilities and may start to offer lots of valuable feedback. I won't go on with this as I will sound crazy. but do not under-estimate a DS's ability to understand rather complex language, so almost anything is possible if the human partners want to put in the effort.]]]]]

about the plastic bone - a nylabone? - unless the nylon is in fabric, fuzzy form like on a tennis ball, it will not have the diamond-sharp edges to hurt the teeth.

stay with bison. sweet potatoes and squash are great for dogs. high in nutrients and low in sugars [ unlike white potatoes which are high in sugars]. I almost always add that to daily wet meal, even tho the merrick can already has sweet potato in it] or I add sweet potato/squash to a snack of sardines, ground flax, and olive oil.
be careful about veggies - some work, some do not. anything that promotes ANY gas in humans is disastrous for dogs [ i.e., onions, garlic, cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, corn, etc]
google - ''WebMD, foods your dog should never eat'' very simple and clear site that everyone should check out.
I see no advantage in feeding a dog one thing day after day. they like variety as much as we do and their systems were not built to process only kibble at every meal, so don't worry about being told otherwise. on the other hand, if your dog has a delicate system, then you need to develop an inventory of things that work; it sounds like that is what you are doing. in addition to your bison, I would try the merrick ''working dog stew'' for high nutrient power and give thought to that platinum performance [ on-line purchase] which comes in a base of ground flax seed. try adding a lot of additional ground flax seed [ comes in those yellow plastic bags in the supermarket in the baking section - milled or ground - NOT flax flower which is too fine] to wet food like mixing with sweet potato or spaghetti squash, sardines or a can of food.
MOST IMPORTANT, until you can through your own vigilance and her training prevent her from getting ANY crap off the ground, then DAILY PROBIOTIC IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST. filling her intestines with good bacteria gives her a fighting chance to keep bad bacteria from growing uncontrollably. I would recommend at least daily probiotic in any case, but you have a serious situation where a double dose may be called for. you can get pills [ open the capsule and dump contents in food/ on potato or cottage cheese] or liquids at any health food store or a place like vitamin shoppe.

so finishing where I started - if Izzie is picking everything up off the streets of san Francisco, you must find a way to prevent that. absolute vigilance first and then steady training as described above. plus, when she ''leaves it'', ''no eat'', that scrumptious bit of poop or cupcake wrapper, have a tiny, healthy treat ready to give her instead to ''eat.'' give her hundreds of tiny treats if necessary to break the habit - a habit not desirable in a country dog, but a real disaster for a city dog where you are. as long as she is picking up stuff, she is getting multiple daily infections of giardia, etc., in a city like SF. that, in my mind, is the source of her diarrhea and must be stopped.

Many tennis ball surface type dog toys have a dog safe texture now. They use a wool felt and it's not the same stuff that destroys teeth like normal tennis balls. Plus, normally there's chemicals added to human tennis balls to make them bounce more and are chemically unsafe. Those are not adding for certain brands of dog toys.

My biggest concern with tennis balls is that Odin destoys them in about 2 seconds. Taking x-rays and piecing together what's pooped out to make sure nothing gets stuck is not fun. We stick with rubber balls now.

As for the nylabone, you might be interested in the BPA study whole dog journal did regarding toys. Nylabones are stated to be BPA free, but a lot of plastic toys similar to them are not. http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues ... 670-1.html

johninny wrote: imagine chronic diarrhea; we would never tolerate it [ allergies?!; come on !], but so many dog owners allow it for their dogs, even the exemplary dog PARTNERS on this site. it is a tremendous physical, mental, and emotional strain on a dog as it would be on us.

As a person who suffers from celiac's disease, I can tell you first hand allergies and more so food intolerances can attribute to a LARGE percentage of bowel problems. I've seen what gluten and other problem foods have done to myself and other humans and I would never pour additional toxins (i.e. medication) into a system before the possibility of food problems have been eliminated.

I have a severe case where it also affects me neurologically and I went through an entire year of medical testing to find out what my actual problem was and if I had taken half of the medication they tried to give me, well, I'd probably have more problems now than I did before I was diagnosed.

I'm all for a stool sample check, or even a couple from different labs, but I will ALWAYS suggest and try more holistic alternatives like grain-free or raw diets before treating with medication "just in case" the sample didn't find something.

To Johninny,
I now have a treat bag with me on our walks, and reward her for "leaving it", though not every time. It has made a difference, unless it's some kind of food thing in which she looks at me like "Mine sucker" and trus to get it down before I can pull it out. It's soooo tedious since I am always visually scouting ahead of us. When she's loose in the park, she's usually pretty focused on either another dog, or something I'm doing, and doesn't scavenge as much (though that's usually when she gets ahold of poop, something that she's better at now). I also try to keep her out of puddles;-). We'll look into adding more variety to her diet.

LyonsFamily wrote: Taking x-rays and piecing together what's pooped out to make sure nothing gets stuck is not fun. We stick with rubber balls now.

With our agressive chewers, it's good to keep in mind that "red" toys don't usually show up on x-ray, so better to buy black.

LyonsFamily wrote:Many tennis ball surface type dog toys have a dog safe texture now. They use a wool felt and it's not the same stuff that destroys teeth like normal tennis balls. Plus, normally there's chemicals added to human tennis balls to make them bounce more and are chemically unsafe. Those are not adding for certain brands of dog toys.

My biggest concern with tennis balls is that Odin destoys them in about 2 seconds. Taking x-rays and piecing together what's pooped out to make sure nothing gets stuck is not fun. We stick with rubber balls now.

As for the nylabone, you might be interested in the BPA study whole dog journal did regarding toys. Nylabones are stated to be BPA free, but a lot of plastic toys similar to them are not. http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues ... 670-1.html

Pretty sure it is a Nyla-Bone brand. Yeah, we can see Izzy eating a tennis ball, so I never let her have them except during fetch. Evey once in a while, she'll get ahold of a piece of one and she gets so would up, shaking it, running around and jumping. I maker her drop it so we don't have to go to the vet;-).

LyonsFamily wrote:

johninny wrote: imagine chronic diarrhea; we would never tolerate it [ allergies?!; come on !], but so many dog owners allow it for their dogs, even the exemplary dog PARTNERS on this site. it is a tremendous physical, mental, and emotional strain on a dog as it would be on us.

As a person who suffers from celiac's disease, I can tell you first hand allergies and more so food intolerances can attribute to a LARGE percentage of bowel problems. I've seen what gluten and other problem foods have done to myself and other humans and I would never pour additional toxins (i.e. medication) into a system before the possibility of food problems have been eliminated.

I have a severe case where it also affects me neurologically and I went through an entire year of medical testing to find out what my actual problem was and if I had taken half of the medication they tried to give me, well, I'd probably have more problems now than I did before I was diagnosed.

I'm all for a stool sample check, or even a couple from different labs, but I will ALWAYS suggest and try more holistic alternatives like grain-free or raw diets before treating with medication "just in case" the sample didn't find something.

I'm amazed at some people who'll just live with it, thinking "don't most dogs have diarrhea?" We've always tried to find food that isn't corn or wheat based and the Natural Balance Bison seems to be good so far, the chicken not so good. Here is the producthttp://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/produc ... ient+Diets

alspyce wrote:

LyonsFamily wrote: Taking x-rays and piecing together what's pooped out to make sure nothing gets stuck is not fun. We stick with rubber balls now.

With our agressive chewers, it's good to keep in mind that "red" toys don't usually show up on x-ray, so better to buy black.

I was told that the black toys don't show up in x-rays. The vets sell blue kongs that show up though.

alspyce wrote:

LyonsFamily wrote: Taking x-rays and piecing together what's pooped out to make sure nothing gets stuck is not fun. We stick with rubber balls now.

With our agressive chewers, it's good to keep in mind that "red" toys don't usually show up on x-ray, so better to buy black.

Good to know, as two of her Kongs are red. Funny, she has yet to even rip one of those, though we don't let her have her way with them for long periods like the bones.

RobS10 wrote: I'm amazed at some people who'll just live with it, thinking "don't most dogs have diarrhea?" We've always tried to find food that isn't corn or wheat based and the Natural Balance Bison seems to be good so far, the chicken not so good. Here is the producthttp://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/produc ... ient+Diets

It's a good food. We sell at one of the boutiques I groom and train at and dogs seem to do well on it. If your dog has a sensitive stomach, Canine Cavier seems to work great as well.

Personally, this is why I choose to feed raw because I know exactly what was eaten and the poop should reflect it. Organs and certain red meats will make it darker and loose and that's ok as long as it reflects what went in and higher bone contents make it firm. It's really helped me get more in touch with his health.

If it continues to be an on-going struggle with it, home cooked or raw diets are much easier to help you with eliminating what causes certain problems. Home cooked allows you to stay with limited, chosen ingredients, if you're insure about raw or bones for whatever reason.

Stephanie, thanks for the info on the new-fangled tennis-ball-like material. that's good to hear. and the chemicals make regular tennis balls even more frightening.
on your other points, I readily accept most of what you say; I had said tho that I saw no reason to jump to the conclusion of allergy problems to the EXCLUSION of others. beyond that, it becomes a matter of judging the dog's circumstances as to what sort of patience to endure trying to fine a food solution or a settling-into-a-new-home-after-a life-shattering-disaster resolution. in my case, the dog automatically goes on the best diet possible and the diet will get adjusted quickly as necessary. nerves also settle quickly here. a dog coming in from a less than good environment - a pound, a kennel, or a horrible home is a good candidate to have an intestinal infection. and whether detected in a test or not, taking the chance of letting a bacterial or parasitic bloom grow exponentially [ which IS what they do!] is extremely unwise. if the circumstances seem reasonable, trying one treatment round is well worth the risk versus allowing continued growth. left unchecked as they are in many dogs [ and many people for that matter!], these intestinal bacteria migrate to other organs in surprisingly short periods. after a few months, giardia and other tropical bugs will even enter the brain; then there is nothing that can be done and you are left with a very damaged being ---- and people then wonder why their dogs have such behavioral problems. I do agree that one treatment after another is unacceptable. one must have hard evidence and/or a strong plan.
in Izzie's case, WHETHER OR NOT SHE HAS ALLERGIES OR OTHER FOOD-PROCESSING PROBLEMS, given her habit of picking up stuff [ including dog poop ] and the fact that she lives in SF is a guarantee that she is being exposed to gobs of multiple dangerous pathogens, definitely including but not limited to giardia.
until that is addressed [ the habit and its resulting recurring illness] , it would be impossible to determine if she has an underlying, problematic predisposition - and even more impossible to find the real feeding
solution to that problem.
so while I agree with most of what you said, I do disagree with ''never pour...before the possibility of food problems has been eliminated.'' I have 2 very big problems with that sentence. one is your choice of words [ left out of the quote]. most meds are toxins and anti-biotics no exceptions [ especially ones that are effective against these parasites!], but the implication of your statement is that it is an even trade-off. there is NO WAY that risking a large giardia [ etc.] bloom is outweighed by the risks of these drugs if the circumstances suggest there is reasonable cause to suspect infection.
secondly, one can NEVER eliminate the possibility of food problems under these circumstances. it is technically, fundamentally impossible! and I have seen so many people pursue that angle for months AND YEARS to the great detriment of their dogs.
yours is some of the input I value so highly on this site. as I said in my original bugs-post above, I knew this would get me in trouble because there seems to be a broad resistance among very knowledgeable people to what I have to say on this subject.... so until now, I have mostly remained silent, but could not any longer. Izzie's case is so clear, again whether or not she also has food problems. so I warned Rob that I did not mean to pick on him; I had a lot to catch-up on saying.

oh, Rob, btw, it does sound like you have variety. no need to add more just for the sake of it. but the monotony suggested by some, including vets, is sad for nutrition and quality-of-life. I was trying to suggest additional things that are easy, good nutrition, and may well work for Izzie.

Rob, check out antlers for her to chew. Mine is 2.5 years old and has to chew a lot...antlers aren't as hard as recreational bones, tho she has chipped a couple of her molars. She has to chew, tho, so these are the best natural thing I"ve found so far.