The term DUTCHIE

[johninny]

oh, i know people who would say it and be amused by it -- but they would have also done it [ and they're not talking hounds and foxes! ].

only 4 people have called me Johnny. all gone. i miss it. but not aware that either johnnie or benny have multiple [ and mischievous - or worse ] meanings.

[Starlight Pilot]

LOL, so you mean you WOULD tell your friends that you gave your bf a Yankie for his birthday?

If people are truly offended by the term "Dutchie", then I will not use it. But this is really only like medicating a symptom, not curing the sickness. Talking to people and getting to know them, and thereby their usage of terms, would be a better solution in the end.

This is why I'm saying to please take it in context. Now that any Dutch speakers on here know that, it shouldn't offend. Personally...I prefer the term HYENA for my dutchie

[Ben_jamin]

I guess the point I was trying to make is that it's all about context, perceptions and word associations.

I doubt anyone here who has used the term thought of pastries or drugs when they used it. They most likely hadn't heard it used in that context. For those that had heard it used in that fashion though, they already had a negative association for the word and this is what they think of when they hear it. And then for others, these very same associations might not be negative at all (I know I love me some pastries )

Like I said, if someone is truly offended by something, then I will refrain from it out of common decency, but a little bit of understanding (on both sides) can go a long ways.

[johninny]

i had a rather famous and powerful [ and obnoxious ] friend who would readily refer to anyone [ their physical presence being no impediment ] who has not noticeably - even radically - excelled at their primary endeavor in life as ''a loser''. if someone gave him a disapproving glance, he would be glad to put his comments in the appropriate context to make it all better, serving at the same time to elucidate what makes his subject such a ''loser'' in life - adding ''i am sure XXX knows that no offence was meant and has taken no offence.'' [ unfortunately, i cannot remember a single instance in 32 years of observation where the latter proclamation actually had any truth to it despite the fact that not a single one of said subjects ever spoke up in objection.]

[Dutchringgirl]

John, I had a college accounting teacher who would call any of us who didnt get the answer right a LOOOOOOOSER. Now, she was having fun with it and never meant it in a mean way, we used to giggle. There are so many words that have so many different meanings, some innocent and some, not so LOL.

I agree with Ben, If someone does object, maybe we can have a conversation about why. It would give us a chance to learn more about each other, since many of us are from so many different places.

[Raven]

I've never used Dutchie, though it had nothing to do with having learned it wasn't a preferred term or might strike a PC chord. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me when words get converted to end in "ie" or "y" unless the person doing it is under five. (And calling a DS a Dutchie is kind of like calling a shark a fishie.)

I agree, though, it is about context. And respect. I doubt anyone on this forum has ever used the term with malicious intent or to purposely show disrespect.

[Stacy_R]

I've never used Dutchie, though it had nothing to do with having learned it wasn't a preferred term or might strike a PC chord. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me when words get converted to end in "ie" or "y" unless the person doing it is under five. (And calling a DS a Dutchie is kind of like calling a shark a fishie.)

Hear! Hear!

Love the analogy..."nails on a chalkboard." There should be an emoticon for that!

Rottweilers, Dobermans, Dutch Shepherds, Pit Bulls, etc are too beautiful and powerful to be called "ies"
You don't hear people calling GSD's/BSD's "Sheppies" or Cane Corsos "Canies" or Mastiffs "Masties."

I know that it is all a personal thing. Some people see the "ie" as a term of endearment (I still maintain that it goes back to trying to make certain breeds seem less volatile after over breeding). I see it as not respecting the integrity of the breed and their beauty, power, regalness, etc.

My son is a Black Belt in Taekwondo. If someone asked him if he was a black-beltie in Taekwondoie, he would probably kick them in the head....

[icvanstra]

to quote myself:

Why use a diminutive term to describe this breed?

[Stacy_R]

to quote myself:

Why use a diminutive term to describe this breed?

agreed.

[johninny]

this last chirp by me is not needed, but my autistic self likes precise use of language and i have a fear my last post left some room for misunderstanding:

Stacy, first just want to make clear that my friend was definitely not using LOSER with the same sense of camaraderie and humor as your professor.

it was my attempt at dissenting on the ''in context'' argument. to me it is about MEANING [ which was left out of a string of controlling variables in one post ]. not that one cannot play with meaning, but the term DUTCHIE has already been played with in so many ways and is too loaded down with highly diverse and potentially negative meaning to start applying it as a nickname to regal dogs.

and, as in the example of the target subjects of my friend's indelicate observations, the burden of a complex and embarrassing discussion should not be thrust on [ nor will it often be taken up by ] the potentially offended party - at least and especially in an open setting where it may be perceived by some as trivial.

[ forgive me if this seems/sounds argumentative; it is not the spirit in which it is written. again, it is just my too-often apparent obsession with clarity - at least on my part! clarity on the part of others would bring me a happiness i have seldom known in life except with the dogs. ]

[LyonsFamily]

I've never used Dutchie, though it had nothing to do with having learned it wasn't a preferred term or might strike a PC chord. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me when words get converted to end in "ie" or "y" unless the person doing it is under five. (And calling a DS a Dutchie is kind of like calling a shark a fishie.)

I agree, though, it is about context. And respect. I doubt anyone on this forum has ever used the term with malicious intent or to purposely show disrespect.

I had a pet shark named Sharkie growing up. I was 4 when I named him.

[Raven]

Phew! You came in on the cusp!

[MaliNut]

The term always reminded me of a stupid song from the eighties and I thought it was slang for a joint.

You mean "Pass the Dutchie"? LOL..that song is hilarious. But the irony is you do not pass the DUTCHIE in Jamaica...each person has their own DUTCHIE and it does not get passed. Must be a USA/UK thing.

My wife told me this; so I'm just sayin'.....

[Stacy_R]

I've never used Dutchie, though it had nothing to do with having learned it wasn't a preferred term or might strike a PC chord. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me when words get converted to end in "ie" or "y" unless the person doing it is under five. (And calling a DS a Dutchie is kind of like calling a shark a fishie.)

I agree, though, it is about context. And respect. I doubt anyone on this forum has ever used the term with malicious intent or to purposely show disrespect.

I had a pet shark named Sharkie growing up. I was 4 when I named him.

[Ben_jamin]

I feel I must apologize if I came across as argumentative. That was not my intention either. I was just trying to point out that most of the arguments and hurt feelings I come across at work every day (at least the ones outside of alcohol serving establishments) are caused by simple misunderstandings in vocabulary. This is heightened by the fact that different words have different connotations with different cultures, age groups, and various other factors.

In none of my posts was I attempting to make excuses for people who intentionally attempt to insult another person. Like I said above, if something truly offends a person, then common decency compels me to abstain from that behavior (or using that term) in their presence.

[Raven]

I don't think anyone felt you were being argumentative. Well, I didn't. It's nice that you took the time to reach out and clarify, just in case.

[Dutchringgirl]

So...............I guess I shoulnt tell you I call Thalie "Tally wally"??? Or Sadie, Sadie Pie???

[johninny]

and Ben, i definitely did not take you as argumentative at all. if your worry was prompted by my response in particular [ may or may not have been ], then please do not worry at all; i just wanted to close my thoughts with a bit more precision.

here i go again: personally, it would never have been my style to use Dutchie, but really did not matter to me and i think i did not participate in the first round of this discussion; just sat and learned. but once it became a topic [ 1st AND 2nd times], Eric spoke as part of and FOR the Dutch contingent here, disapproved of the term, and explained multiple reasons why it was unacceptable. on the 2nd go-around, i was a bit appalled that that was not universally [not speaking of you, BEN] taken as enough to stop PUSHING the term. alright, some may comfortably use it privately, but why insist on it here when the ''discussion'' that was desired already took place with a good representative of the [potentially] offended party.

anyway, Ben, i agree with Sharon that it was very nice of you to be concerned and so considerate.

[Karin]

The Dutch term for our pups is Hollandse Herdershond... I've also seen just Hollandse Herder and in perusing the Dutch Kennels the term Hollander is common for a short version.... I kind of like that! When I lived in Belgium years ago, my diminutive name was Karin-etja... Anyway, just mind excerpts.
HAPPY NEW YEAR

[Dutchringgirl]

John and Ben, you guys are no where close to being argumentative, so please, dont worry about that. You guys are always thoughtful.