Dutch Shepherd Forum

Kristie Elliott wrote:I just got an email from Gwen's breeder. She said that her experience is that sometimes the DS's with Malinois in their background have "soft" ears that sometimes will be reluctant to stand.

Please do invite her breeder to this list! Everyone is welcome.
And I don't mind one bit, that she will read that I think that claim has no scientific basis and is just a coincidence, if she noticed a difference
Oh sure. Some bloodlines have larger bone which often goes right along with softer ears. Some dogs just have crappy conformation, ears not excluded. Not referring to any dog specifically, just a general remarkBut to pin that on the absence of brindle in some members in the family? I don't think so.

Christie M wrote:AKC will accept a "brindle" malinois registration if you are just wanting ILP status.

That says something about the (level of knowledge within) the AKC!
Two fawn dogs with black masks (= malinois) will never ever be able to produce a brindle. ILP or not, it cannot be done. Impossible. And yet you can register your brindle malinois? Doesn't it make you feel good, that folks like them dictate to breeders what is and what is not allowed? They don't even know what is and what is not possible.

ill just call her "softie" LOL From my miniscule genetic experience ( high school) 2 fawns could make a brindle if the fawns are actually Dutchies with Brindle genes correct? If a dutchie threw a fawn, the fawn will have brindle in its DNA, then you get another fawn from a dutchie. If you can register a fawn as either, which i have seen fawn DS, then a fawn mal that is actually a dutchie? Need more coffee

Dutchringgirl wrote:ill just call her "softie" LOL From my miniscule genetic experience ( high school) 2 fawns could make a brindle if the fawns are actually Dutchies with Brindle genes correct? If a dutchie threw a fawn, the fawn will have brindle in its DNA, then you get another fawn from a dutchie. If you can register a fawn as either, which i have seen fawn DS, then a fawn mal that is actually a dutchie? Need more coffee

nope, it's the other way round Brindle is dominant over fawn, so a brindle can be carrying fawn, whitout showing it (brindled like a normal Dutch). If you mate two dogs that carry the recessive fawn, in theorie 25% comes out fawn. But in real life, sometimes none come out, sometimes all turn out fawn
So two fawns can never create a brindle, because they cannot exist without showing their stripe-gene If they do, someone has been telling stories... :dswink"

nope, it's the other way round Brindle is dominant over fawn, so a brindle can be carrying fawn, whitout showing it (brindled like a normal Dutch). If you mate two dogs that carry the recessive fawn, in theorie 25% comes out fawn. But in real life, sometimes none come out, sometimes all turn out fawn
So two fawns can never create a brindle, because they cannot exist without showing their stripe-gene If they do, someone has been telling stories... :dswink"[/quote]

thats kind of what i meant, it makes sense in my head. It would make sense though that fawns have brindle in their DNA, then 2 fawns could make a brindle. Unless it just dosnt happen, like you said.

Here is a picture of the 4 possible punnett square options for a brindle and a fawn dog. It is only one single allele set, so if they carry brindle, they show brindle. Capital "B" is brindle. Small "b" is fawn.

Thanks Christie, thats exactly what i was looking for, i just had to see it, i was trying to wrap my head around it but needed the visual.

Thanks. I actually forgot one I forgot to include a homozygous dominant bred to a homozygous recessive. Here is an amended version.

vneerland wrote:

Kristie Elliott wrote:I just got an email from Gwen's breeder. She said that her experience is that sometimes the DS's with Malinois in their background have "soft" ears that sometimes will be reluctant to stand.

Please do invite her breeder to this list! Everyone is welcome.
And I don't mind one bit, that she will read that I think that claim has no scientific basis and is just a coincidence, if she noticed a difference
Oh sure. Some bloodlines have larger bone which often goes right along with softer ears. Some dogs just have crappy conformation, ears not excluded. Not referring to any dog specifically, just a general remarkBut to pin that on the absence of brindle in some members in the family? I don't think so.

I would be happy to invite Dine, she did say that she wanted to work on her English. I bet she would love the DS faces we have here too ( I wish they had them on the PSA forum too) However just to clarify neither of us said it was scientific, just an observation that Gwen had a Mal grandpappy and that the soft ears have been observed in the Mals. Gwen happens to have her daddy's ears which are also a tad bit floppy when he runs. I asked what her experience was if any at all since she does breed the DS. lol about the crappy conformation... I have seen so many different sizes and shapes of DS's I wouldn't know what was proper if it hit me upside the head or knocked me down ....

Thanks for the Punnet Square Christie... I will have nightmares tonight about my genetics class in undergrad now actually, I do thank you for the illustration though. :dswink"

the illustration really helped, Sadie's ears are doing better and the floppy tops are really cute, The left one is pretty upright and when the right one flips back you cant take her serious. these discussions always become very informative, I appreciate the input.

Dutchringgirl wrote:the illustration really helped, Sadie's ears are doing better and the floppy tops are really cute, The left one is pretty upright and when the right one flips back you cant take her serious. these discussions always become very informative, I appreciate the input.

I agree! I learn so much with all the discussion, I love it!!! Yes, floppy ears are cute and Gwen is so funny to watch especially with the tips of her ears flopping when she runs.

Dutchringgirl wrote: It would make sense though that fawns have brindle in their DNA,

ehm? I'm guessing that now that you saw Christies pic you understand that it's not ?
Or am I missing somthing in the english here

Marjolein wrote:

Dutchringgirl wrote: It would make sense though that fawns have brindle in their DNA,

ehm? I'm guessing that now that you saw Christies pic you understand that it's not ?
Or am I missing somthing in the english here

Im good, the diagram was what i needed to get it through my head, thanks!

Dutchringgirl wrote:

Marjolein wrote:

Dutchringgirl wrote: It would make sense though that fawns have brindle in their DNA,

ehm? I'm guessing that now that you saw Christies pic you understand that it's not ?
Or am I missing somthing in the english here

Im good, the diagram was what i needed to get it through my head, thanks!

ok

Christie M wrote:Thanks. I actually forgot one I forgot to include a homozygous dominant bred to a homozygous recessive. Here is an amended version.

For crying out loud Christie.
Using B for brindle and b for fawn. Now how do you expect me to explain to anyone that DS's do NOT have bb in their make up, just BB? For those in the know: B stands for Brown, the color that can turn a black labrador into a chocolate labrador
So let me try to confuse everyone. Christie used B to make it easier to understand. The correct notation in this case would have been "kbr" for Brindle and "ky' for fawn. But the division of brindle and fawn will remain the same if you disregard the use of alphabet.

vneerland wrote:

Christie M wrote:Thanks. I actually forgot one I forgot to include a homozygous dominant bred to a homozygous recessive. Here is an amended version.

For crying out loud Christie.
Using B for brindle and b for fawn. Now how do you expect me to explain to anyone that DS's do NOT have bb in their make up, just BB? For those in the know: B stands for Brown, the color that can turn a black labrador into a chocolate labrador
So let me try to confuse everyone. Christie used B to make it easier to understand. The correct notation in this case would have been "kbr" for Brindle and "ky' for fawn. But the division of brindle and fawn will remain the same if you disregard the use of alphabet.

Well that shows how little I know I remember in 9th grade the dominant gene was capitalized and the recessive was lower case. It made perfect sense to me. LOL.

Kristie Elliott wrote:I would be happy to invite Dine, she did say that she wanted to work on her English. I bet she would love the DS faces we have here too ( I wish they had them on the PSA forum too) However just to clarify neither of us said it was scientific, just an observation that Gwen had a Mal grandpappy and that the soft ears have been observed in the Mals. Gwen happens to have her daddy's ears which are also a tad bit floppy when he runs. I asked what her experience was if any at all since she does breed the DS. lol about the crappy conformation... I have seen so many different sizes and shapes of DS's I wouldn't know what was proper if it hit me upside the head or knocked me down ....

Tell Nadine that some of us speak German, and that if all else fails, her English is probably a whole lot better than most list members German. I happen to love our non English speaking members. Gal (Mia's mom) is doing wonderfully and I am sure it is not always easy for her either? And didn't we have French aboard too? Do invite her please. We'd love to have her.

Christie M wrote:Well that shows how little I know I remember in 9th grade the dominant gene was capitalized and the recessive was lower case. It made perfect sense to me. LOL.

Your way of doing it was no DOUBT best for explanation purposes.
Never mind my nagging about the fact that you had gotten yourself lost on the wrong locus. Your way, honestly, is the best way to clarify things. I was teasing, I hope you understand that.

vneerland wrote:
Tell Nadine that some of us speak German, and that if all else fails, her English is probably a whole lot better than most list members German. I happen to love our non English speaking members. Gal (Mia's mom) is doing wonderfully and I am sure it is not always easy for her either? And didn't we have French aboard too? Do invite her please. We'd love to have her.

I did invite her to join us. I told her we are a bunch of nice people who like to gab about their Dutch Shepherds.... Absolutely nothing to be afraid of.... :dswink"

I have decided to Glue a nose strip to her ears, they are standing but now the tips are always flopping backwards and it looks like its making a new crease. I waited until she passed out tonight and I got one done, but then she woke and she didnt like the smell. Ill do the other one tomorrow night.