New to the forum, New to dogs

[Mobil]

Looking forward to seeing some pics!

As an aside, that whole, don't let them precede you through doorways and whatnot is a load of bologna as far as making a difference in whether or not the dog accepts you as the "boss."

[XerxestheMagnificent]

Engagement: goes a long way. If you don't have that, you don't have much.

Consistency: part of successful training--and for your life together.

Focus: helps down the road with proofing. (Proofing = testing reliability, especially under distraction.)

I also began reading "Schuzhund-obedience training" that explained the importance of foundation, avoidance of corrections, etc
-it also pointed out that a dogs pre-existing foundation may have to be revamped as well, i think mild contributions from both of these concepts as well as the dog developing an opposition reflex to my leash skills caused our meltdown....we will be TRULY going back to basics now and focus on attention and name using marker training (tiny little pieces boiled chicken "seasoned" with crushed up vitamin treats) and go from there based on progress. Will definitely keep updates coming, thank you all for the advice and please keep it coming. Im really excited because based on the information Ive read so far Xerxes displays all of the ideal genetic characteristics in temperment, alertfullness, nerve, etc- I am very positive that persistence an training will truly bring these traits out.

[Raven]

As an aside, that whole, don't let them precede you through doorways and whatnot is a load of bologna as far as making a difference in whether or not the dog accepts you as the "boss."

I agree it doesn't translate to who's running the show. I do, though, train it as part of the beginning package, especially if impulse control was an issue (can anyone say Thor?).

[johninny]

[ how do you completely delete in the new format when a double-posting occurs? ]

[johninny]

i'm not sure i get what the flow of events has been, but i find these dogs get stubborn mostly when you have done something to offend them - when you have not shown proper respect or not taken advantage of opportunities to bond in an activity together.

your early and on-going description of his behavior/personality suggested a truly exceptional DS. respect him and be his friend first. ''do no harm'' should be at the forefront of your thinking ALL the time. he has already shown himself to be unbelievably good. do not try to re-make him. work WITH HIM to show him ways he can do HIS THING in even better and more precise ways - to show him how good life between you can really be. do that and THIS DOG that you have will blossom miraculously. with this dog - if i am properly reading the signs and you have described them well - you need a VERY LIGHT TOUCH. respect for him and being his friend and protector with consistency will give spectacular results; he will figure out very easily what you want from him. DO NO HARM. TREAD LIGHTLY. BE A FRIEND THAT TEACHES, not a master that trains!

re not feeding for a session or even a day: i would be very careful. some dogs can cope with that but more often than not it plays havoc with their gastro-intestinal system - with the most common result being that they throw up yellow flem a couple times in quick order [ as soon as they get hungry and have nothing for their stomach acids to work on]. enough of that and it will damage the upper tracts of system.
true it might temporarily increase food motivation, but i think you lose a bit of trust. that is a trade i would not make. trust - and being the best friend and guardian possible - will in the long run get you more of what you want out of him.
also true that there are huge differences in food motivation among dogs but generally if a dog has no interest in treats it means you have the wrong treats. give him stuff that is good for him and tastes good and he will eat as long as he is healthy.

good luck! you have a great dog; keep him that way and build on it.

[XerxestheMagnificent]

Hello all,

So I just finished midterms. Having the dg during this time was tough but he's also put a lot of structure into my days. Some could call it selfish but I am forced to take the dog out all the time so that he doesn't destroy my apt or use the restroom indoors. 90% of the people we come across though are terrified of the dog :s which has advantages but it also means we have to be very careful about where we go and who we stop for. The last thing I need is to end up with some kind of situation that could develop from the dog and a stranger getting off on the wrong foot.

This point brings up a point that I will be needing a lot of help on. Essentially I've reLized that I did everything possible to make a dog uncomfortable/anxious in a new setting. We have been slowly working on recovering from my errors. I am now only using English with the dog, I don't really talk to r pet him unless it's in the context of some kind of good behavior.

Most importantly: when I got the dog I made the mistake of being susceptible to the Opinions of friends on Shady's behavior and how to treat him. He is aggressive when playing- but gentle and his goals are always oriented at the toy not the "opponent" he's playing with. However, I let several male 20-26 yr olds play with the dog, when he began getting aggressive with them and they couldn't handle it I told them that they must either ignore him completely or allow the sniffing of the toes/etc... Long story short, he ends up getting on top of every "unassertive" male human that we come across and I am not really sure what to do about it...at this point I just put him in time out on the balcony because giving the boys treats to try and help with training didn't seem to work. His food drive is liw in the sense that it only works when other distractions are not present.

Also I want to make sure, based on the posts in the behavior section I think Shady is just being a puppy but my friends worried me when they made comments about his behavior such as that he "nibbles" or whatever when sniffing toes, playing, etc....I have now been playing with him twice when at some point he has put my entire arm in his mouth but he didn't even close his jaws or apply pressure. Also once or twice he has attempted to stand over me when I try and make him comfortable by sitting on the floor while playing with him. This is a very important point please if anyone can provide advice on how to interpret these behaviors and whether they need to be curbed/punished
I am using the clicker training method now with a the sound made by a carabiner (went from verbal click, to snapping fingers, to phone iclicker that had too much lag. For the past 3-4 days our training methods have remained relatively consistent. I changed the dogs name to shady because he wasn't really responding to Xerxes and I felt like he was traumatized by the ways in which that name was "treated" I basically revamped my entire attitude towards the dog when I changed his name.

I'm still having trouble bonding with the dog, it's hard to get him to play WITH me as opposed to simply being the vessel through which the dog must go in order to obtain his toys. This is really important to me- I want to bond with this dog and I'm having trouble figuring out how. He likes walks and training but seemingly only as a means to an end. He's virtually no responsive to me during these times except when i offer instructions on correct play (he's smart enough to learn where he can bite which toys when playing catch, tug-of-war, etc)

Any advice/suggestions would be sincerely appreciated thank you all so much for your time and help. Sorry I know this point may be a little disjointed there are just so many issues I would like advice on I don't know where to begin ahahaha

[cordeliandemon]

someone with more experience will pipe in here but heres my 2 cents.

1.) try to keep calm, make a conscious effort not to feel too intimidated or even wary of him if mouthiness is getting out of hand. id imagine correcting it on an older and much larger puppy is alot more mentally draining than a little baby. (and by correcting i mean diverting his attention to a chew toy or saying "no" and stopping any play/passively ignoring him if he starts to nip. no punishment should be involved)
tell your friends to chill out and maybe just ignore the dog all together when theyre there unless shady is calm, ive found if you associate a person or a place too much with play and not relaxing too your dog will likely go into a frenzied excitement everytime they see the person. make sure they know they shouldnt be trying to dominate him or be the boss and that they shouldn't appear intimidating to him.

2.) since demon was very small hes tried to climb on top of me if im down on his level during play because he used to try to grab my dreads, since i cut them off hes still done it as a means of play (or trying to show me a toy) dont be aggressive about it and dont punish him, just redirect it.
try not to read too much into it, its bad manners but i wouldnt say hes trying to "dominate" you or anything like that.
try throwing a toy away from you as a distraction if he does it or ask him to lie down/sit and reward him for doing that instead of climbing onto you.
if you redirect it enough he'll get the idea that its not a desirable behavior.
so far with demon ive got to the point where i see him coming twards me about to do it and i just put my hand infront of me and calmly say "no" and he'll change direction or roll over infront of me for a tummy rub instead.

3.) focus on being his friend not his master since youre still trying to bond. play time needs to be about building his confidence, its ok to let him win.
with demon he didnt really care for tug-of-war originally but i changed the rules so that hes allowed to beat me. if he pulls as hard as he can putting all his weight into it and keeps a solid bite ill release the toy letting him *win* and give him lots of praise and cuddles too, but he has to work for it.
patience and mutual respect are key, hes still getting to know you and youre not going to see what a wonderful dog he can be untill he gets comfortable and trusts you.

im sure youve got alot on your plate, just try to relax and remain calm. you made a few mistakes in the beginning (alot of people do, if i can remember right this is your first dog after all) and it will take some time and patience for him to recover from that.