Dutch Shepherd Forum

[quote="Christie M"]

We do know that phycopharmacueticals are drugs (valium, prozac, xanax...etc) or chemicals that alter emotions in humans. They were developed on animals and they were said to alter "behaviors." Same chemicals, same physical reactions - different terms.[quote]

The problem with psycho pharmaceuticals is that while you would think that if they work on animals then it would work with people, but it just simply isn't true. In essence an ssri will affect serotonin and should yield in a lifting of mood, but it doesn't work with all people. In fact it doesn't work well for a lot of people. That is why you see so many different types of drugs out there. They don't have a good track record. The action is the same for animals ie block serotonin re uptake but it doesn't fix the mood. Quite a few anti-convulsants are used for psycho-tropic issues, they were not intended for such use but there you go. So we are the same but not.


Most researchers will agree that there are five basic emotions fear and disgust (i couldn't find a smiley for those). from those five we have secondary emotions, anger anxiety depressed, confused, etc..

Kristie Elliott wrote:

Christie M wrote: We do know that phycopharmacueticals are drugs (valium, prozac, xanax...etc) or chemicals that alter emotions in humans. They were developed on animals and they were said to alter "behaviors." Same chemicals, same physical reactions - different terms.

The problem with psycho pharmaceuticals is that while you would think that if they work on animals then it would work with people, but it just simply isn't true. In essence an ssri will affect serotonin and should yield in a lifting of mood, but it doesn't work with all people. In fact it doesn't work well for a lot of people. That is why you see so many different types of drugs out there. They don't have a good track record. The action is the same for animals ie block serotonin re uptake but it doesn't fix the mood. Quite a few anti-convulsants are used for psycho-tropic issues, they were not intended for such use but there you go. So we are the same but not.

But, if it doesn't work on every human the same way - isn't it safe to assume that it won't work on every animal the same way. For those animals that it does.....well, it's doing the same thing.

I only have experience with prescribing (OK, I can't prescribe, I just told vets what to do) drugs to dogs. Sometimes we also had to play with things to see how it altered their behavior. I have preferred protocols (and I now give in-services in local vet clinics), but do understand that even within the same class of drugs sometimes adjustments have to be made.

The point is, they do or do not act on the same mechanism in an individual, whether it be human or animal. In humans, we same they alter emotions or moods ("leveling" is my favorite term). But in animals that are receptive to them, they alter behavior.

Christie M wrote: But, if it doesn't work on every human the same way - isn't it safe to assume that it won't work on every animal the same way. For those animals that it does.....well, it's doing the same thing.

Um I wouldn't assume anything. The problem is that the people doctors/researchers don't really know why it works on some and not others. The big issue is that the data is often massaged so that it looks good. they have some big advertising and research and development bills to pay ya know.

Christie M wrote:I only have experience with prescribing (OK, I can't prescribe, I just told vets what to do) drugs to dogs. Sometimes we also had to play with things to see how it altered their behavior. I have preferred protocols (and I now give in-services in local vet clinics), but do understand that even within the same class of drugs sometimes adjustments have to be made.

the preferred protocols don't work often enough for it to become accepted practice. there is a new drug out that combines an anti psychotic with and anti depressant and you can't adjust either side to the patient. So what you end up with is a hit or miss drug that might have some effect but can't be tailored to the person. And a new Patent for the company... on two old drugs without patents.

Christie M wrote:The point is, they do or do not act on the same mechanism in an individual, whether it be human or animal. In humans, we same they alter emotions or moods ("leveling" is my favorite term). But in animals that are receptive to them, they alter behavior.

A very wise man who also happened to be a psychologist asked the rhetorical question at a major conference recently "when isn't behavior emotion? we can call it what ever but behavior in people is linked to emotion. I guess you have to look at how much depth an animal has. Are they simply response stimulus or is there more? I say there is more. You can watch your dog and tell when they are happy or discontent or even disgusted. LOnnie would get this look on his face when Gwen would do something crazy. I don't know for sure what he was thinking but the look on his face was enough to tell me it was something other than a pure behavior in response to a stimulus.