Dutch Shepherd Forum

Choochi wrote:Dog Girl, I know there are all of about 3 of the same pics you see of Carlos every where you look on the net, but here's a pic of Carlos off Jeff's website:


I'm almost not sure if that is Carlos as the dog looks so different from the other pics, but it's posted in Carlos' gallery.

People who I know who have seen Carlos in person always tell me they are shocked at how short he is, although he is supposed to be stocky and build like a pit. I have never met him in person.

Here's another one I have saved, I don't remember where I got it from but most likely Mike's site:


My female Dutchie is out of Carlos and she has a very sleek thin coat with longer hairs (although not long). When she was a puppy she looked a lot like her father, thick and fuzzy, but as she grew she got more lanky and her coat completely changed as she lost her puppy coat. My male who's mom is a daughter of Carlos' brother Wibo has a completely different short and super dense fuzzy teddy bear like coat. None of the other Carlos' kids I know or have met have that fuzzy looking coat that Carlos has in the pics you tend to see of him.

Lol wow he really is short!!! He is still pretty cute though, the person who takes his picture must be some sort of professional photographer to make him look so big!!! Got to admit even though he is short I would still LOVE to have one of his (and maybe a taller female) puppies. That is if I was compatiable with his lines and him and the Female too.

MeganBays wrote:

Selena wrote:
Bor is about 70 cm, when he lived here a bit heavier than now at megan's. Think he's about 40 kg now (meg?).
Our wibo is the littermate of carlos, and father to bor. Also carlo is related ( ont top of my head: mothers side tommy luijken) x carlos.

At the moment he is chunky.. Probably around 95lbs. But when the weather goes back to miserable heat we will slim him down again.

To the original poster I would begin to seriously consider factors other than looks such as temperment and the purpose that the dogs have been bred for when selecting different lines that you are interested in and what would be most combatible with your lifestyle.

Wow he weighs more than my dog Gunner, and he is 92 pounds! I don't know what line I am compatiable with right now so I can literally only go off descriptions and my prefered size range. When I am finally able to go to Atlanta Working dog club and meet different dogs and lines I will be able to really start choosing breeders and such. Right now I am just browsing through and seeing if I like the breeders training, breeding, goals, and their dogs too.

Selena wrote:

Choochi wrote: My male who's mom is a daughter of Carlos' brother Wibo has a completely different short and super dense fuzzy teddy bear like coat. .

Athos is out of maya x rudie 2 son, right? Maya is dushi (grietje x wibo) x wibo, so multiple times wibo.

yes.. one of the 10 thousand Rudies... Isn't there another "Rudie 2"? I thought this one was just Rudie, son of Rudie. Thank goodness for BRNs, he's 13540.

DogGirl_95 wrote:
Lol wow he really is short!!! He is still pretty cute though, the person who takes his picture must be some sort of professional photographer to make him look so big!!! Got to admit even though he is short I would still LOVE to have one of his (and maybe a taller female) puppies. That is if I was compatiable with his lines and him and the Female too.

LOL ok I know I don't need to say it, but I just have to say.. you don't pick Carlos because he's cute! lol That dog has a reputation and it is not for being cute and fuzzy, inside or out!

It's all fun looking at the pictures of the dogs and reading up on them on the net, but for sure you really need to get out there and meet the dogs and breeders in person and make up your own decisions and opinions about dogs instead of reading what some one else thinks about a particular dog. You really should try to get together with some people who do have the stereotypical hard ass knpv dogs (and you don't have to be looking for knpv dogs to find dogs with that type of personality) and see them in person before you decide you want one. Some people think they do, until they get one, and have to live with an asshole dog which they have to manage, and have eyes in the back of their head, and then they realize this is not as fun as they thought it would be.

If you do end up with a big hard ass dog, do you have a support network of people familiar with this type of dog to help you (hands on, not over the internet) with training, or caring for the dog if you go away or get sick. Do you want a dog that despite all the socializing and training you do might have to be crated every time some one new comes over to the house, or a dog that people will not be able to approach if some thing happens during one of your hikes and the dog is either lost or you or the dog are hurt and need help? Think about the qualities that would make a dog fit your life style, not just one that would be cool to have.

and just to add RE your preferred size of the dog.. keep in mind the larger the dog, the more it will cost to feed, medicate, vet, board, you will have to buy larger crates, you will have to pay more if you ever want to ship the dog, every vet procedure will cost more, they tend to wear out (joints, heart, etc) faster and cost more in the long run from that perspective... Also if you're looking into bite sports, very large dogs are not the ideal and smaller large dogs usually do better, have more stamina, are faster.. same goes for a number of other sports since you're considering doing sports with your dog. There is some thing very convenient about a dog that's just big enough, but not overly big. There is a point of diminishing returns in all sorts of aspects once you reach a certain size.

Although it is important to research a breed before getting a puppy, you are over-analyzing and approach this like buying a car or an appliance.

Also, did you consider the cost of training French Ring or Schutzhund? Trainers charge between $50 and $75 per session. Training just once a week would add to a monthly cost of at least $200. Then food, supplements, toys, vet visits. You could easily end up spending $500 a month.

And don't forget the cost of gas to get to training. Most people have to travel a fair amount of distance to training. In my case that's an additional $200/mo.

And.. if you are doing sports with a large dog, chances of injury are much higher. I have a friend with a very large mal training in FR who it seems is constantly having issues and is in some form of rehab because of how big he is and he really puts a ton of effort into every thing he does and as a result keeps injuring himself (as he doesn't care). It's extremely frustrating for her as it means the dog can't rain or title while he is recovering but still needs to burn off all that energy some how. You can easily end up spending hundreds more on physical therapy and vet care.

Choochi wrote:And don't forget the cost of gas to get to training. Most people have to travel a fair amount of distance to training. In my case that's an additional $200/mo.

Hmmm....
Ok I won't not be able to have a DS then. Maybe once I make more money/full time job and my new dog is gone, so about 10-15 years from now. I knew FR training cost a lot but now that we REALLY lay out all the costs I CAN afford a dog but just not to train one in something special. I could do it with some help from my parents but I don't want to leech off them. A Dogo is going to be the I get then. So I guess this is "the end" of my DS researching and stuff for a couple years and I better focus on the breed I can afford. I will still keep my profile and if you ever come to GA give send me a P.M.! And btw this is like the best Dog forum E-V-E-R !

It is really a pitty that it all comes down to the money in these days!

When I trained my GSD in Schutzhund 25 years ago in Germany, it costs about 100 DM or so a year to be a club member with the local DVG club and 60 DM to be a member of the GSD club (to get a score book). The trainer were all volunteers and did help whoever wanted/needed help and for free. Of course a beer and schnaps after the training was always welcomed. But nothing of what's going on in these days.

May be you want to consider getting into law enforcement as a K9 handler and get paid for what you love to do.

Schlussdibusti wrote:May be you want to consider getting into law enforcement as a K9 handler and get paid for what you love to do.

Ya think? Though departments are obligated to give time for training and some compensation for upkeep, don't expect it to be reality. And don't expect a department to approve more than the minimal amount required for training. You can get lucky, but the reality is that many handlers do it because they love it, and if they hound (pun intended) the department for money or time, the administration might quickly decide that they cannot 'afford' to keep the K9 on the street. So the handlers quite often donate their own time and resources, just so they can keep working the K9.

Training has to be a passion. If you love it, you will sacrifice other things for it, so you can afford it. Like most other hobbies. It will most likely cost a lot if time and resources, not equal to the return, other than in passion and well being derived from doing something that you truly love.

Is there an administrative difference within some venues (military and police and then each department according to set-up and/or funds) between trainer and handler? If so, which is more prevailant? (I would assume that "trainers" would be more among the few and handlers more often than not are "the" trainers?)

Schlussdibusti wrote:It is really a pitty that it all comes down to the money in these days!

When I trained my GSD in Schutzhund 25 years ago in Germany, it costs about 100 DM or so a year to be a club member with the local DVG club and 60 DM to be a member of the GSD club (to get a score book). The trainer were all volunteers and did help whoever wanted/needed help and for free. Of course a beer and schnaps after the training was always welcomed. But nothing of what's going on in these days.

May be you want to consider getting into law enforcement as a K9 handler and get paid for what you love to do.

I realized that the Dutch really was my favorite dog...ever. The Dogo will be great but nothing to a Dutch or any other herding breed. That's Ok, I need experience in owning other domonaint breeds anyways. I haven't even met one before yet I just know me and a Dutch would be best buds. I have heard that certain clubs are really expensive and some are more realistic prices. I considered emailing the trainer I was interested in but I know it would need to be free LOL. I considered the military and K-9 handler but with the military you have to commit for so many years and you can't get out and you have to be a Cop for some many years before you can be a k-9 handler and you have to pass all these tests. That is a lot just to teach a dog to bite the bad guy!!! I even considered going to school and becombing a trainer myself but that takes lots of time and money. I would rather wait 10 years when my dog is gone and just get my new dog when I have a full time job.

vneerland wrote:

Schlussdibusti wrote:May be you want to consider getting into law enforcement as a K9 handler and get paid for what you love to do.

Ya think? Though departments are obligated to give time for training and some compensation for upkeep, don't expect it to be reality. And don't expect a department to approve more than the minimal amount required for training. You can get lucky, but the reality is that many handlers do it because they love it, and if they hound (pun intended) the department for money or time, the administration might quickly decide that they cannot 'afford' to keep the K9 on the street. So the handlers quite often donate their own time and resources, just so they can keep working the K9.

Training has to be a passion. If you love it, you will sacrifice other things for it, so you can afford it. Like most other hobbies. It will most likely cost a lot if time and resources, not equal to the return, other than in passion and well being derived from doing something that you truly love.

So true. Who knew a dog could be more complicated than having a kid Lol!!! I think the reason we are not seeing as many Ds's is because theya re not show dogs and a Malinois is. Some/Most Show breeders, depending on on the breed, don't work their dogs and so ANYONE can own them. With a KNPV DS you have to work the dog in something, and Their training/work costs more than raising a friggin baby!

You know I have to say that the two KNPV dutchies I have are waaay easier to live with then the mal. He's always on edge, whining, pacing... it takes a while for him to settle down even after the two Dutchies are long snoring. My female especially can be border line lazy couch potato if you let her, but she's up for hours of running and more then happy to do be working when she is.

That's funny. Gunner is a lazy couch potato 24/7, you should see how long it takes me just to get him excited about playing fetch and he is constantly running back to the door after only 10 mintues Lol! I know anything with more energy than Gun would be better.